My point is that clone chip does nothing against Lotus Field and so I haven’t tested it. All the rest is pretty much the same, different tweaks to number of events and plascretes, but finding a solution to Lotus doesn’t involve a CC.
after playing a lot with it, the only time I want hostage is for utility connections like the source or decoy, although grabbing masanori isn’t the worst.
Why Infiltration? I mean obviously because you want to expose things sometimes, but why do you feel like that is necessary? Worried about remotes against Jinteki:PE, or something else?
Never run into a trap in server? AggSec?
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Infiltration is usually a mediocre card, but in the 1/20 games where you play infiltration for expose it’s going to be the MVP. Andy has an extremely hard time winning if you get hit by a 2x adv AggSec. Don’t let this happen to you. If you play 1 Infiltration, you can cycle it for credits early and same old it when you need it. By the same token, if you’re playing a hopeless game against Andy, try install advance advancing an agenda in an open server if they don’t have infiltration in the bin. It’s also reasonable against any deck with 3/2 agendas and expensive remotes if you don’t feel like running through Heimdalls or Tollbooths to find out if the install was a Marked Accounts/Adonis Campaign or an Astro/Beta Test. Basically, playing one is reasonable because it’s at low cost, (if you wanted to play 1 Easy Mark to smooth out your openers anyway, this is just one credit worse), and when it’s good, it’s REALLY good, (like, don’t take 2-3 brain damage or lose your rig good).
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Psychic field says hi
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Infiltration is a necessity for many of the reasons Dan mentioned. For the games you need it, you NEED it. I usually end up either A. Not using it at all or B. Using Same Old Thing on it multiple times. The most recent version of the deck actually has 2 Infiltrations, in place of the one Easy Mark. The deck originally needed some extra econ to optimize turn one, but Security Testing has made it less necessary.
Hostage does suck, for sure. There used to be a Crypsis in the deck, and some games it would win it for me, but most games it was such a piece of shit I couldn’t bear to even install it. So out it came. As big a fan as I am of Mr Li, I wouldn’t run 3, 2 is plenty I almost always have it when I need it.
Regarding Plascrete, lots of people have said to me “run 2 or 0”. I don’t know that I agree, there are very few games where you need or want it, and in those games Mr Li will get it for me. I had 2 games out of both Regionals I won where I needed it, and both times I got it in plenty of time.
Another note on Andromeda in general: I think a lot of people (including some of the people posting here) are playing the deck wrong. Her ability gives you a huge start-up bonus, but that doesn’t make this an aggro deck. This isn’t Gabe. If you had to make a Magic comparison, Andromeda is a control deck. You slowly build and make timely accesses early game, until you are at the point where both program and economy-wise you can run wherever you want every turn. Historically these turns were R&D once, HQ 3 times, recently they are more like “once for Security Testing, Hit R&D, hit HQ, click Kati”. The need to hit HQ hard is almost gone with Legwork in play. Of course, you run R&D again if you can see a new card. Anyways, I feel that people seem to think this is some hyper-aggro criminal deck, it isn’t. It is slow burn control, that basically hits a point that it can make the game near hopeless for the corp.
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Yeah, the days where you’d take Andy and just go medieval roflstomping corps from turn two with no mercy (Hi @spags ;)) was from Nats => Worlds last year and is now gone and past (and that’s good!).
There is so, so much program destruction now, and corps will get up off the mat economically. And Komainu is a thing. You have to be careful and protect that criminal rig. Once it is up, though—out of Andy/Gabe/Iain—you’re well on your way to a board control win.
AggSec / PS / Destroyers everywhere is why I say you can’t drop Clone Chips. You just can’t. I’ve needed at least one per game with this deck to seal wins. Freakin’ RP ;).
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PS and Destroyers are actually relatively easy to play around. AggSec is pretty dangerous, but it’s not played very often at all, and infiltration helps a lot, (not to mention the fact that if you get AggSec’d you’re actually unlikely to have Clone Chip available fast enough to make much of a difference). On smart play, you can play 50-100 games before you lose because a breaker was trashed. 2 Parasite 1 Clone Chip is fine, like I said before, but I honestly think you’re going to win a lot more games from 1 RDI than you will lose from not having a Clone Chip. When I switched out my Clone Chip, I never missed it, and when I put back the RDI, I was just like… God I missed you.
Maybe in your meta PS/Aggsec/Destroyers are everywhere, but I see them pretty rarely and still don’t lose to them. Faerie is really good. Even the Power Shutdown Jinteki matchup is over 70% if you just make sure to keep suckers and faeries in play. The Weyland matchup is even easier. The only time you should really lose to these things is if you get blindsided, (you assumed those things weren’t in their deck because they were HB or something).
Do you really lose to RP a lot? I have found it to be an easy match up. Other Jinteki decks I find much more annoying.
As far as RDI vs Clone Chip, I think the ability to use another Parasite far outweighs RDI. RDI is good, and if I had 17 inf I would play one, but it is wholly unnecessary. It is a luxury item. It can help you win faster, sure, but rarely will you win a game because you have it, that you would have lost if you didn’t. It certainly helps against Fastrobiotics, but it may come out too late to be of any use against it many games. In most match-ups, by the time you would want to install it, the win is already inevitable, or close to it.
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It’s pretty important vs any NBN deck and also vs Red Coats, I think. It does come too slow vs NBN a lot of the time, but it can be hard to win without it if they score an Astro ever. Vs the Red Coats, R&D gets really expensive in the late game, and often has something you have to double click through to get in reasonably. Those games go long, so you actually have time to find it. Parasite is just okay against either of those decks. In fact, against those decks, parasite is usually only very good if you draw it early and kill something off to set them back. Recurring a parasite is often only minimally useful vs NBN, where none of the ICE is a major problem once you’re set up, (except for possibly lotus, but that’s irrelevent obviously), or HB, where the problem ICE is often too large to Parasite quickly, (Datasucker counters are scarce because their ICE is so big).
With only 2 Parasites, RP is a close matchup. I’m not sure about your meta, but the matchup is pretty close with 2 Parasites. I’m sure with 2 Clone Chip instead of Knight/RDI, it gets a lot easier. The people I play with have been playing RP for a while now, and are pretty good with it; I think whoever plays better usually wins. The Clone Chip(s) are a lot better than the RDI there, but I think my NBN matchup is enough harder that I still want the RDI. I feel like I can edge most RP players without Clone Chip most of the time, but NBN decks can be really hard against any old dingus if they get the right cards, so that’s where I’m hedging right now.
So, in most matchups, yes, another Parasite is better, but not by a lot except vs Jinteki, and in a good chunk of the matchups, RDI is significantly better than the Clone Chip. I would actually just play two Quality Times and cut Li if I were going to lose RDI, not add a Clone Chip. You also see a lot of cards playing Andy, so I like to err on the side of being more dynamic (I’m playing 1 Bank Job, 1 Plascrete, 1 RDI, 1 Infiltration, and am on 2 of Inside Job, Security Testing, Shutdown, and Same Old). 2 Parasites means that when you need a Parasite, its usually there for you, and that’s good enough for me right now. If there were more program trashing and less Biotics in the meta, the Clone Chip would be more appealing to me
Keep in mind, I’m testing on the assumption that Lotus and NEH are going to be out for regionals, which means that I’ll have two less influence for the critical mass of Parasites to make Clone Chip worth it, and that NEH Biotics is probably going to be everywhere. Pre-H&P, I was playing 2 Parasite 1 Clone Chip.
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Parasite is excellent against NBN, as they are ICE light and anything you parasite away early can make a big difference. Against Redcoats, I don;t need RDI because I don’t need to run R&D. If you focus on keeping the remote open, all you need is Legwork to win. I also like Parasite against Redcoats… in fact there is never a time I don’t like Parasite. It is just one of the most useful runner cards in the game. I think people play RDI because they NEED multi access… or think they do. It is sort of a crutch, a security blanket. But it is not necessary.
Maybe NEH will be everywhere, but I haven’t seen any evidence that it is really that much better than the current NBN decks, so I am not too concerned about it.
there is the 70 percent win rate of NEH on octgn if you place any validity on octgn stats.
I base over 70% of my life decisions on OCTGN stats.
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I just was playing elimination rounds of the BGG tournament with this list against Red Coats (upstalk legal):
Li OOE Andy (45 cards)
Andromeda: Dispossessed Ristie
Event (18)
3 Account Siphon
3 Dirty Laundry
2 Emergency Shutdown
1 Infiltration
2 Inside Job
1 Legwork
3 Special Order
3 Sure Gamble
Hardware (5)
3 Desperado
1 Plascrete Carapace
1 R&D Interface
Resource (9)
1 Bank Job
2 Kati Jones
2 Mr. Li
2 Same Old Thing
2 Security Testing
Icebreaker (8)
1 Corroder
3 Faerie
1 Femme Fatale
1 Knight
1 Mimic
1 Yog.0
Program (5)
3 Datasucker
2 Parasite
The RDI was single handed MVP. It would have been fine as a Parasite, but if it were a Clone Chip, it would have been shit, as I didn’t see Parasite. I’m not actually sure the opener was even keepable if it were a Clone Chip. Basically, it comes down to this: 2x Clicking an Eli, Viktor, or Ichi for one RnD access is usually not very good. RDI lets you apply serious pressure to a new server, making the other servers weaker, and late game it’s usually your best chance to win, (Legwork HQ runs are usually laden with unrezzed ICE and a pile of anti-siphon defenses, and they usually jackson away a lot of agendas. It’s still a good place to win, but it’s not always easy, especially if you don’t apply RnD pressure). Also, lot’s of people put Eli on RnD, in every faction. RDI click through gets you 2 instant accesses and forces their hand.
I recorded the game, it’s uploading now.
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The OCTGN interface for Mr. Li of “Click which card you don’t want” always confuses me.
That 1 plascrete won’t help against any deck that brings serious scorch
Sure it will, most decks cannot scorch you without you taking an action to allow it. I haven’t had an issue with being scorched yet.
As far as the RDI/Clone Chip/Parasite conversation, I really only have one thing to add, and then I am over it. I can understand the want for RDI, but playing a third Parasite over a second Clone Chip is nonsense. Clone Chip has way more general utility, and after drawing a Parasite, a Clone Chip is ALWAYS better. That said, I have been playing with 2 Clone Chips for awhile now, and it works great. The decks track record speaks for itself, I don’t think further explanation is really necessary. It is very clear you can win most of your games (80%+) without multi R&D access. You will likely win about as many games with an RDI over a Clone Chip, in the grand scheme of things. It essentially comes down to preference, either way the deck is extremely dominant when played correctly.
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See you in Philly 
“A lot”, no. I think they’re the best Jinteki ID (and have thought so for a while); obviously your mileage varies. My point was simply that I see a lot of decent-or-better jinteki (RP specifically) builds & players that focus on breaker destruction. I value clone chip over RDI or more parasites for that reason: they help me not lose games where my draw luck was crap—thanks for never showing up, Faerie!—or I otherwise couldn’t live up to “the Hoobajoo way” of just never being wrong :).
I can totally understand wanting a multiaccess threat to R&D. I used to swear by it, myself, but increasingly I find that runner play is more about not losing to stupid stuff like lack of recursion, combo-kills, punitives, etc than it is about crushing, dominant victories. Which I personally find sad, but hey there you go ¯\(ツ)/¯. The moment these corps let their guard down: boom, I’m in yr R&D, multiaccessing yr cards ;).
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