Cache/Pawnshop Kate

Wouldn’t this be better out of Hayley?

(Obviously not yet, but it’s nice to be able to write that about a Shaper.)

Not sure that Hayley waiting to play cards 2 by 2 and being forced to pay for Caches would be better…

And Cache is click-neutral out of Kate.

You’re right. :smiley: And I also using Hostage.

I don’t think it’s correct to use Scavenges just to reset Cache. It only nets you 3 credits (or 4 with Scheherazade). It the same as having any other 0-1 credit program with Aesop’s out. But, if you have Scavenges to reset Lady or Cyber-Cypher and occasionally use it to reset Cache when you need the cash :wink: then it’s fine because of the flexibility. Now, if you’re running Grimoire (and getting another +1 credit), I’d have to ask, why you’re not running this build out of Noise?

If you have room for Scavenges and no reason to reset other programs, just add in more cheap programs (Inti, Zu.13, Refractor, or Paricia).

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I agree, Hayley has the potential to be better than Mac in certain builds and this definitely is one of them. I’d say I value an extra install action more than saving one credit. It wouldn’t be that tough to replace Mac’s discount (heck, one Sahasrara would do you one better).

I actually have asked if running this out of the Professor would be better, but I haven’t tested it yet.

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Scavenge is not used only to reset cache in this scenario.
It is used to alpha shot 9 cr (+3) with one click. Without it, it’s impossible to do so.

A Grimoire Noise pays for Cache, at this point if you compare Kate / Cache or Noise / Grimoire / Cache, Kate is always faster and never clic neutral if you draw a cache in your mulligan.

Actually Noise and Kate are different runners doing different things, using different card pools. Kate Cache aims at remote locking and Noise aims at milling the corp / glory run.
That’s two differents plans, two different ways of playing the game. Kate Cache is less expected than Noise mills to be honest.

Noise is probably a better deck but Kate is probably more interactive and fun to play with and against…

All that stuff I wrote about Mass Install? Applies especially well to Hayley and you don’t need even need to actually slot the card! Sahasrara is effectively free if you have a >2 cost program in hand that you actually want to play, and the Cache angle also has potential. I’m very excited for the next cycle.

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Hayley’s Cache + program is not any better than, say, Kate’s Modded + program…
Using Caches to play a Modded’s role is a pretty bad plan for Hayley in my opinion.

Except it’s not just that. I often have turns where I’m weighing up foregoing the discount to get cards on the table. Kaplan, OTOH, can spam cards at unprecedented speed. Sahasrara + literally anything 2-cost or greater costs no more and gives you absurd econ. Every SMC and Clone Chip is a one-shot Savoir-Faire, even on the corp’s turn. Chip back a Cache for free (Sahasrara), install something from hand (discounted), gain 3c from Cache and sell it to Aesop’s when your turn starts. Turbo-rig is going to get a lot more turbo.

(ETA: And that’s to say nothing of potential shenanigans with Replicator, Personal Workshop or The Supplier! But that’s another discussion for another deck style.)

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Exact same setup WITHOUT Scavenge gets you 6 credits. So Scavenge only brings 3 credits to the table. I don’t know why do you glorify this play, since it’s WORSE than Sure Gamble.

I’ve been playing Noise for a while now, and if you think Noise is mill + glory run, boy, you have no idea how Noise is to be played properly :smile:

Noise is about constant all 3 central pressure, and with any of them easy to access, threatens a devastating medium to RnD, or Imp/Nerve agent to the HQ, alongside constant archives pressure.

But let’s not digress from Kateshop. It seems interesting indeed, but I think it’s missing a bit still. Wouldn’t you like Wyldside for a constant stream of cheap to install programs? I’ve played against a nice shop deck which is loaded with Zu and the likes, which solve all your MU issues if you run Toolbox.

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Wyldside

Wouldn’t that be nice, but I can’t justify the influence! I’m really liking how economical Earthrise is once Aesop’s is in play, and you have 2 turns to find the Pawnshop if you don’t start with it. I often find that I am looking for cards more than money - I click ProCo for cards and get money as a benefit, so dropping an (effective) 1-cost Earthrise is still OK post-ProCo.

Can I suggest Pawnshop Kate as a better name for the engine? The -shop suffix usually suggests a Personal Workshop build thanks to Noiseshop.

Sure Gambles from 5 gives +4 now.
Scavenge from 0 gives +3 if a Cache have been played or used, then +3 next turn, and more options (parasite moves, call backs, etc).

Yes Sure Gamble is more usefull first 2-3 turns, but Scavenge in my opinion is really better 80% of the time. Tested this on 50+ games since last september 22 :slight_smile:

I was sumurising… You could play Noise without any pressure on other centrals than Archive aswell, for exemple if you focus on parasite spamming.
But in any case, you would pressure Archives for sure.

I tried this. 9 inf to rely on it + 3 for caches means you’re stuck with 3 inf for breakers and parasite / vamps… Unbuildable in my opinion for too little benefits in a faction that can allready rely on good event draw.

It’s actually funny that up until few months ago, Wyldside was considered one of the worst card draws in the game. And Shapers are kings of card draw, with the best card draws in their faction.

But even still, just few cards come out, a new archetype becomes available, and suddenly Wyldside becomes amazing card for it.

I just love how this game keeps turning upside down and how cards go from “HA AS IF” to “played in the highest level” (I’m looking at you Data Dealer at Worlds!)

Damn you ANR Y U SO AWESOME :blush:

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I don’t know why do you constantly keep bringing in “+3 next turn”. Scavenge does NOT do that. Cache and Pawnshop do that. Your scavenge did nothing to help or enable that. It would still happen if you did not Scavenge that Cache.

I agree about the parasite moves and refreshing doggy breakers, but stop with the credit bonus :slight_smile: It’s just 3 credits for a click, nothing more.

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I say this because in case if Scavenge installs a cache, you always gets 6 credits. Now in my deck it’s valid, in endgame’s it may be not since he plays stuff that need to stay here and could always use a depleted Cache for a starter. In my case I never do.

I play no parasite but lots of 1cr programms instead. So I target this Crescentus for exemple, to transform it into a Cache that WILL bring me 6 cr.

Endgame need to transform depleted cache into full cache. So he miss an Aesop.

So yes, maybe the tip I was giving about Scavenge is not a good idea in the synergy he tries to put in place with that deck (but in my deck, that card is OP :p)

It’s funny; I thought Earthrise would be a great for Noise - but I’ve actually been underwhelmed. Mathematically it should be good, but Wyldside seems a lot more powerful (despite the click loss).

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Again, if you just Aesop that Crescentus, you gain 3 credits. Again you netted only 3 credits. Not really OP I think :smile:

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It depends a lot. Sometimes you want to get rid of that Wyldside soon, but sometimes you keep drawing dead plascreetes, wyldsides and pawnshops and you want it to stick around. Plus Wyldside is a bit cheaper to start with… The only time you really need the clicks is endgame, where you can easily dump wyldside, and keep an extra one in hand in case you need to reset.

Can someone split this to the Noise topic? :smiley:

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In a no-parasite deck my choice was to use Crescentus + Scavenges rather than Easy Marks + Sure Gamble, just a matter of choice and agression.
In one option from 0cr, I get sometimes +3s and +6s, in the other one I get from 0cr +3s and from 5cr +4s.
In one option I have the option to agress the corp, in the other one none.
In one option I get better credits alpha shots than the other to break scoring windows : just a matter of choice, really : why would people use Stimhacks, Kate PPvP’s Lucky Finds or that sort of things ? :slight_smile:

I’m not saying Scavenge is bad, it is in fact an awesome card. All I’m saying is that it does NOT bring you more than 3 credits per click if you use it for money. You were saying it brings you 6-9 credits per click. It does NOT. That’s all. Peace :wink:

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The Crescentus was already worth 3 credits. You’re only netting 3 credits off that play.

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