Eater made Keyhole actually viable and now it gets played. That’s the big change. Not having to access R&D to see three cards is huge, and without much in the way of ice (especially taxing ice that stands up against parasite), that makes MaxX (who is pretty popular) a PE killer. Add in Leela’s continually growing popularity, and that’s another nail in the coffin – her ability to bounce face down Mushined cards on steals hurts the bluffing game something fierce.
Clot had basically nothing to do with that particular shift.
There is some degree of self-fulfilling prophecy,
EDIT to avoid making another off-topic post:
[quote=“TheRedArmy, post:383, topic:1784”]
Leela was around before Worlds, so I’m less inclined to include her, although people do have much more experience with her now than back then.
[/quote]People weren’t running her as much, though. She’s grown in popularity substantially since then – I wouldn’t be surprised if the PE threat was a part of what got other people to keep tinkering away with her.
Seems most commonly to be a one-of, though. You should be able to withstand a single Indexing most times, although it does seriously hurt. Late-game could cause you losses.
OK, it’s legitimate that PE is in a downswing.
Bleh. I feel useless. Excuse me while I hide myself away for 17,000 years.
Hey man, no need to hide away! I think you identified a really important factor that’s present in all games with a ‘meta-game’. When I go to tournaments, I feel I really can tell the meta-wise (i.e. forum-active) players from the rest based on the cards in their decks. And quite often, the non-meta-wise players will get the jump on me because they play in ways I’m not expecting. In fact, I reckon the presence of those players is exactly what makes the meta-game of a game like Netrunner as interesting as it is.
On-topic: I’m really psyched to play this deck with Comet soon. Does anyone have a solid verdict on whether the deck has moved past Oracle May? I love May, but the Symmetrical Visage option also seems real strong.
Oracle May will just trash your comet, and I always found while the program trashing was recoverable with May it created significant tempo hits. Visage provides nearly all the benefit with none of the downsides.
Retrival Run turns the tempo hit into a tempo boost and 1 extra credit a turn is a not insignificant difference. I think either way is possible although I think the viseage route starts to push you towards a big rig PVP Kate build.
But then you have to make splash room for the Retrieval Runs, and if your programs aren’t trashed they’re useless, and if you can’t get into Archives they’re useless.
The extra 1 credit is nice, but Visage costs no influence and frees up lots more card slots and splash over May. I don’t see why Visage would be better suited in PPVP Kate, it’s good in pretty much any runner deck.
The reason viseage pushs you towards Kate is that once you take out May there is little reason not to include PVP, SOT and arguably RDI over Makers Eye. Add in Comet and at that point Kate becomes a better ID than CT and you are playing a PVP Kate deck allbeit a very different one to the standard build.
Well I guess we disagree a bit here because I don’t like PPVP + Comet together! The main problem with running Comet and May is if she trashes your Comet there’s no way to get it back again, at which point you might as well not play it and go back to the original May/Doubles deck. If you see the list I posted above I think SOT is good to install in an event heavy deck so that would also push me away from May, but not towards Kate either.
I agree that Comet is a reason against May, but I don’t think it is insurmountable. The probability is that you will pick it up off a Diesel or something rather than trash it - especially if you run two (which you can do by switching one of the Mays and another influence for a Hostage).
Anyways I haven’t had a chance to actually play Comet yet, so this is all theory at the moment.
I played a few games with it proxies in yesterday. Plays like the old deck but sometimes you get a free click. I’m not running dirty laundry which should probably be in because the best thing is lucky find into free run event.
Game day is underwhelming but not terrible. I would consider 2 of game day. Plays better with comet but lacks the draw power of quality time without help or set up.
Same old thing is perfect at a 2 of. 1 for some Econ or a run event and 1 for levy which you pitch immediately. I was running a utopia shard and playing it twice a game is funny.
Game Day is the junk I thought it was, but it makes Power Nap so stupidly good that it’s staying in at the moment. Comet lurches between feeling absolutely insane (a turn of May + Power Nap for 10 + Legwork + Makers Eye being the high point) and a little awkward. Being able to Test Run/Scavenge off the same click and Power Nap into a surprise Indexing make it well worthwhile though IMO.
It desperately needs a Excalibur solution. Femme only gets you so far. Also feels a little slow with only the one legwork and having lost Lady. I’m worried about rush decks. Overmind might be a solution to both problems, even if it is blank later on.
Chaos Theory: Wünderkind (Cyber Exodus)
Event (34)
1x Stimhack (Core Set) •
3x Diesel (Core Set)
3x The Maker’s Eye (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)
3x Test Run (Cyber Exodus)
1x Retrieval Run (Future Proof) ••
2x Indexing (Future Proof)
2x Scavenge (Creation and Control)
2x Levy AR Lab Access (Creation and Control)
1x Hostage (Opening Moves) ••
3x Eureka! (Second Thoughts)
3x Power Nap (Double Time)
3x Lucky Find (Double Time) ••••• •
1x Legwork (Honor and Profit) ••
3x Game Day (Breaker Bay)
Kate would gain you exactly one credit in the course of the game with this build. But yes, there you can bring in Visage, RDI, SOT, probably PVP (but PVP doesn’t play well with Comet) and switch to Kate and it might or might not be better. My main worry would be the extra five cards that aren’t Test Run but then if you aren’t running May you can fit in an SMC (although it wouldn’t be great).
Very rough draft without much playtesting and I feel the influence could have been spent better (maybe 1 planned assault / 1 legwork so it add one more double in the deck)
Hell, if we’re going to do that, let’s take out the Torch and Comet, put in CyCy and Astrolabe, and then we’ll have a real deck.
I realize PPVP isn’t necessarily a combo with Comet, but I’m unsure of the total disdain for it in this sort of deck. It seems to me more like “these PPVPs are gaining me 2-3 credits a turn” instead of “ugh, I had to pay money for an event, all the lost value”. Playing multiple events in the same turn isn’t suddenly better if you’re paying full price for both instead of getting the first one for 0 creds and 0 clicks.
The all-doubles version hasn’t endeared me as much as subbing out Game Day for QT and Power Nap for basically anything else. Day Job, Dirty Laundry, whatever. Power Nap for 10 is awesome, but Power Nap for 3 is really underwhelming, Game Day is hard to get value from in my experience, especially at the start of the game when you’re trying to get the ball rolling and needing to overdraw, and Eureka is really underwhelming to me. Drawing cards out of order is pretty mediocre; all these Eurekas and Game Days in hand, not a Test Run or Power Nap in sight.
Either version has always felt way too slow in my limited testing, but Calimsha’s list looks worth trying, probably with the Planned Assault. I want this deck to work, 'cause it can be fun, but so far… eh.
Though I will say, I feel like a genius against RP when they have a couple Mental Health Clinics on the board and I play Game Day as the last card in my hand. All aboard the value train.
