Can’t even break Viper in the first place. What a rip-off.
@hasserik, I imagine you’d have posted the other new card here if you got a shot of it, but just in case you forgot since the draft started I thought I’d check.
Influence-free,same install cost as Mimic,break Architect for 3,I love this little creature.
2 Likes
i like comparing this to Shrike because i think they’re a little similar, but it also has to contend with Mimic + Datasucker/Parasite as well
it’s the same to install as Mimic with less strength, but it can actually break 4+ str sentries without Datasucker/Parasite/etc.
vs Shrike: 2 less to install, 1 less str per pump, 1c for every 2 subs vs 2c for all subs
so any ICE with str 3 or less has to have 5 or more subs for Shrike to be better
so that’s Komainu and Tour Guide (though not all the time).
for anything else, it’s just as good or better at breaking.
however, anything with 1 or 2 subs that’s 2-3 str is broken for cheaper with Mimic, so Architect, Caduceus, and the seldom-played Negotiator, and actually cheaper to break Lancelot (with 3 subs).
they all come even at 4c with Muckraker (bleh) and Tsurugi
for anything at str 4, Shrike is better because it breaks them all for 4c, while Mimic needs Datasucker, and Mongoose needs to pay 4 just to get that much strength (it’ll be up to 5 though)
the main ones though are Ichi 1.0 and Information Overload (and to a lesser extent NEXT Gold), which Shrike breaks for for 4c, Mongoose breaks Ichi for 6, IO for 4+.5 per sub (so depending on the number of subs but it’s not as bad), and NEXT Gold for 5
but most str 4 things are going to be painful to break for 4c anyway, like Cortex Lock, Data Raven, and Hunter, but the alternative is Mimic + Datasucker
Mongoose breaks everything at 5 str for 5-6c, which is a lot, but requires either: D4v1d counters, Mimic + 2 sucker tokens, Atman 5 (or Atman 4 + sucker token), or 6c from Shrike
with the limit of one sentry per run, i don’t think you’re breaking too many sentries per run anyway (but maybe that’ll change after this lol), so i think Mongoose can easily replace sucker + Mimic in criminals to save on influence. Anarch isn’t importing it since they have such great tools already, Sunny is probably keeping Shrike, but Shaper and the other mini factions are in the same boat influence-wise. does Adam run this? he has Always Be Running as a backup for another sentry. does Kate still run Datasucker + Mimic?
either way, this card is cool at least for criminals. anything really big and expensive can be broken by Faerie anyway. i’d probably just drop one Faerie for Mongoose and just have it around for later on in the game
flavorwise, i’m loving this a lot. the art is great, i’ve always thought that Rikki-Tikki-Tavi was a cool story (and The Jungle Book in general), and the flavor text is absolutely perfect.
this also makes me think that the cobra art by Liiga (mr snakey snake) that’s on the cover of Salsette Island will be a sentry that Mongoose is perfect at breaking
2 Likes
IMO Mongoose is unplayable. It’s on the level of Force of Nature; that’s how unplayable I consider it to be. the only universe that it’s even remotely worth analyzing Mongoose in is a world without Architect, and that world is a few years away. shame cause cool art
[quote=“moistloaf, post:870, topic:4340, full:true”]It’s on the level of Force of Nature; that’s how unplayable I consider it to be.
[/quote]
It’s not even close to that bad. Get a grip.
22 Likes
It wasn’t actually another card, just one that player hadn’t seen yet (the shaper AI breaker)
2 Likes
Really? You’re going to save 1 influence to install an icebreaker for the same cost as Mimic that pays more to break nearly every piece of relevant ICE in the game, and has an extreme limitation? I suppose Force of Nature is still worse cause it’s the same cost as Yog in faction, but Mongoose is definitely unplayable. I still believe it is on the lowest tier of card along with FON.
Mongoose is a permanent Killer that you can boost the strength. Those things are rare. It’s best compared with Garrotte, Creeper and Pipeline. It is by far the best of that bunch - on install cost and efficiency.
With support - I’d look at Datasucker primarily - I think it’s best comparable to Switchblade.
It’s not a great card, and having a boostable strength is its only benefit over Mimic. But saying it’s anything close to Force of Nature is just wrong. It’s the best of any boostable, permanent Sentry breaker we’ve ever seen, despite its drawback. Force of Nature, on the other hand, is the worst of its type by a good long way.
8 Likes
Mongoose is close being good but I think it has too many limitations. 1 per ICE is the most important because Mongoose becomes too inefficient if you have to ever install a second killer. I think Mimic in criminals is naturally something you want to compare it. Mongoose is not so much more efficient than Mimic and 1 influence is a low cost. Assassin has maybe finally made Mimic a bit worse and HB can shutdown Datasucker tokens from centrals. But also HB can quite easily install two sentries in same server.
With Datasuckers I would play Mimic. One option is to play Mimic and have Mongoose to handle some big sentries but usually Femme has a bit similar role. Mongoose works best in criminal decks which change datasuckers for multithreaders and handle the second sentry problem with Faeries and Femme. Problem rises if corp installs two cheapish sentries in the same server like 2 Architect.
3 Likes
How is only being able to break 1 sentry per run an “extreme” limitation? If the Corp is stacking Sentries against Criminal, good for them I guess?
It’s only 1 more to break Architect than Mimic and it can actually break some of the higher strength sentries people have been playing that Mimic can’t hit without support anyway.
Is Mongoose perfect? No, but it is an actual breaker compared to the the other permanent options FFG has released for Criminal. (FOH Leviathan and Garrote).
5 Likes
If you’re comparing it to Mimic, then Mimic has a far more extreme limitation: it’s not boostable. You can jack out after the first sentry if you’re really worried about a potential second one, but you can’t boost Mimic to break the first one!
So what you actually end up comparing is Mongoose to Mimic plus Datasucker.
That’s a 2MU breaker effectively, so we ought to be comparing it to two copies of Mongoose. But you can start breaking sentries when you draw the first one and the draw order doesn’t matter for the two Mongeese(?!), while Datasucker can’t break sentries on its own until you get the Mimic. Once set up, Mongoose can’t get locked out of Datasucker tokens on centrals, while Mimic-Datasucker can.
Yes, Mimic is more efficient at breaking strength three sentries (two credits cheaper for odd-subroutined ICE, one credit cheaper for even-subroutined ICE), but outside of that it has issues of its own.
On a tangent, I wonder if there is any mileage in Mongoose as a splash for Kit, since to get “single-Mongoose-locked” the Corp would need two sentries in a server and another ICE outside those two?
5 Likes
Mimic has been maybe the best sentry breaker from release of the core set so the limitation hasn’t been too extreme. There isn’t many good over str3 sentries (apart from Ichi but it has some problems) which see play. Lets hope Assassin finally changes the Mimic superiority at least for criminals.
1 Like
It has been extreme enough to demand any Mimic deck also run Datasucker/Faerie/Sharpshooter, and often two of those three. This has only been exaggerated by the amount of Cyberdex Virus Suite we’ve been seeing, and as you say - it will only be more relevant with high strength sentries appearing.
5 Likes
Apologies if any of the maths is incorrect, but I think this is the comparison of Mongoose and Mimic-Datasucker. Find your most hated pieces of ICE and decide how much you want to trade off money vs. the time/risk of getting Datasucker tokens!
Credits only to break:
- Same cost - Burke Bugs
- Mongoose cheaper by 1 - Pup, Rototurret, Errand Boy, Zed 1.0,
- Equal - Tsurugi, Muckraker (if tagged)
- Mimic cheaper by 1 - Fenris, Swordsman, Architect, Caduceus, Muckraker (if not tagged), Negotiator, Searchlight, Lancelot (with at least one other Grail revealed)
- Mimic cheaper by 2 - Data Hound, Guard, Lycan, Matrix Analyser, Neural Katana, Turnpike, Lancelot (no other Grail revealed)
- Weird cases - Tour Guide and Komainu (Equal with one subroutine, Mimic becomes more expensive as subroutines increase), Woodcutter (Mimic cheaper by 2 with a single subroutine, but becomes more expensive as subroutines increase)
Takes a single Datasucker for Mimic (“Datasucker net neutral” for a single sentry on a central server):
- Mimic cheaper by 4 - Cortex Lock, Data Raven, Hunter, News Hound, Rainbow (if no Fracter/Decoder probably!), Sagittarius, Uroboros
- Mimic cheaper by 3 - Ichi 1.0, Mamba, NEXT Gold
- Weird case - Information Overload (Mimic cheaper by 4 for one subroutine, difference decreases with extra subroutines)
Takes two Datasucker tokens (need to run “top-up” runs for Datasucker tokens):
- Mimic cheaper by 2 - Enforcer 1.0
- Mimic cheaper by 3 - Assassin, Ichi 2.0, Sherlock 1.0, Shinobi
- Mimic cheaper by 4 - Gemini, Grim, Nebula, Taurus, Virgo
- Weird case - Swarm (Mimic cheaper by 4 for one subroutine, difference decreases with extra subroutines)
Takes three Datasucker tokens (need to run multiple “top-up” runs for Datasucker tokens):
- Mimic cheaper by 4 - Archer
- Mimic cheaper by 6 - Flare, Snoop, Gutenberg (it’s going to be on R&D)
Takes four Datasucker tokens (need to spend a whole turn just getting Datasucker tokens):
- Mimic cheaper by 6 - Susanoo-No-Mikoto
Takes five Datasucker tokens (your deck is tuned primarily just to get Datasucker tokens, right?):
- Mimic cheaper by 6 - Janus 1.0
- Mimic cheaper by 7 - Orion
Real oddballs:
Draco, Shadow.
11 Likes
With NRE this breaker becomes solid. It can break Tsurugi for two, Architect for 3 and Ichi for 3. You can increase its strength so it is not reliant on datasucker combo (in case you don’t see your Datasucker early) and Splashes for two so I could envision replacing Mimic in my Shaper deck.
The big problem being, if you’re using Net-Ready Eyes, why not just use Mimic? 
5 Likes
Very thorough analysis. I think the main thing that mongoose offers is flexibility. You’re not as vulnerable to a mid run cvs, and you’re not as reliant on getting suckers. Getting through pup and komainu cheaply is pretty nice. If you lay this down, it’ll be a permanent breaker that can rely on faerie to save you in a pinch.
3 Likes
It is a relevant question for sure and one that I have been struggling with recently. Since the release of Faust Corps have been in a difficult position in regards to ice selection. ICE like quandry and Ice wall (low strength low subroutine) became significantly worse. The answer in my area has been putting a premium on ICE that has multiple subroutines (Koimanu, Tsurugi) or High Strength (Nebula, Susanoo). Ice that can combine both (Archer, Ichi 2.0) is really good against Faust. The second part of the equation is the increase in difficulty of mining Data Sucker tokens. Gone are the days of Security testing archives to gain 3 dollars (with Desperado of course) and a datasucker token as Cyberdex Virus Suite has shown and it iis a lot easier for the Corp to lock a player out of their sucker tokens entirely. That is why I’m hopeful for Mongoose as it seems like it will answer the low strength high subroutine Sentry Ice well and is not going to get locked out by high strength sentries like Mimic can. It won’t replace Mimic in Anarch decks as they have reasonable answers in the form of D4V1D but for Criminal or Shaper, Mongoose is worth a look.
4 Likes
The big reason I can see using Mongoose is that it can replace Faerie in purpose (though not quality), which means that Criminal can run 2-3 Mongeese and be set for killers. Maybe a Femme, too, if your deck runs really rich and you know you’ll need to bypass stuff.
That might not save many cards, but you save anywhere between one and four influence depending on if you were with the standard 'sucker plan or not. Sure, losing suckers sucks, but you don’t need to cut them even if you swap to Mongoose as your killer… but if you do, you’re suddenly less vulnerable to CVS and get more than just one influence back
But that one influence, these days, seems like a lot to have locked up no matter what. I don’t think every deck will possibly want Mongoose, but having it as an option seems good. There are a lot of good runner cards that cost only one or two influence, and being able to squeeze more in isn’t something I’m going to complain about.
Again, with the Mimic cut and one floating influence you could get another Parasite (great even without Datasuckers, let’s be honest), an RDI (almost always nice to get into play), a clone chip (less needed if’n you don’t have Datasuckers to go with that Parasite or Faeries to bring back, but rarely bad), a Lucky Find, or who knows what else.
By itself it could be a Utopia Shard, a Stimhack, a Feedback Filter, an Employee Strike, a Film Critic, or a Street Peddler.
I feel like that opens up enough other options to at least be worth considering, assuming that the deck’s economy can be strong enough for the slight increase in costs to not be overly detrimental.
4 Likes
So when does Criminal get its in-faction memory solution? 
1 Like