NISEI Selection Committee Rezzes The Board

NSG Discussion
33

Ok I’m putting a lid on this line of discussion right now.

I understand your points are coming from a place of good faith about diversity. I really do. But I also watched the acting staff make every conceivable effort and then some to ensure intersectional diversity during the whole process – that is, to make sure they weren’t biasing ourselves toward only the types of diverse we already are. They aggressively advertised the process to different countries’ facebook groups in the search for applicants. I even personally offered the Japanese netrunner community that they could submit applications in their native language and I would help translate if that would make any part of the process more comfortable. In the end it’s hard for me to imagine how we could have appeased Syntax’s demands without setting up literal quotas for different nationalities in advance which is frankly ridiculous. Oh and by the way the board is not all white anyway.

You want an anonymized list of demographics about the applicant pool? Fine. We’ll see what we can do. You wanna wrap that request up in sarcasm, attacks on how hard we worked as it was, and requesting us to divulge personal information? Miss me with that shit.

If this argument about whether the selection process did “enough” for diversity keeps going around in circles I am going to start deleting posts without mercy. I guess it’s better than the “too much diversity” bs but still. We did a heck of a lot as it is and we’ve got a board that will do a phenomenal job being intersectional going forward. Let’s celebrate that.

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34

You may already know this but in Spanish we do not have gender neutral pronouns (or nouns for that matter) in the same way as English. The simplest case is the -o (masculine) suffix vs. -a (feminine). Some people have proposed changing that using something like -x but I have only seen it written, no one I know actually speaks that way and it would sound odd to most I think. There isn’t really an accepted standard like “they” in English that a translator could use.

Not a big deal, since I only play with English cards anyway, but since you mentioned translation and I know inclusivity is important to NISEI, I thought I would mention it. I’ve seen Syntax mention it before re: French but I’m not sure if it was totally clear what was meant.

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35

I think the general consensus from the previous discussion was that the cards in each language should use whatever is considered to be the best option for inclusive wording in that language. In English, which is the only language many of us here are qualified to discuss, that clearly means using “they.” In other languages, NISEI will have to work with the volunteer translators and other players who speak the language in question to figure out the best option.

I would assume that they’d be open to changing what they use in the future if there’s reason. For instance, if the Spanish translation team initially decided that -x would be too awkward, but then over the next few years -x or some other option became more widely used outside of Netrunner, I would hope that NISEI would be open to changing to it.

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36

Ah, I did not realize there was a previous discussion. I just wanted to make sure people were aware of it in case it hadn’t been mentioned. It sounds like you have a handle on it already.

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37

@gg-e-z Always worth asking though, just in case it was something missed. None of us are infalliable :slight_smile:

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38

It’s in the thread for the equality, diversity, and inclusion article. I haven’t re-read it, so I hope I haven’t misrepresented it.

(Also, I’m only a member of the NISEI pre-board acting staff, so I’m on the way out and I don’t in general speak for NISEI, despite the “NISEI Staff” currently by my name.)

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What does the designation He/Him mean?

40

What is a native en-en-en?

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It means they would like you to use those pronouns when referring to them.

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42

Oh thanks, I may be too old and I don’t care if the board has any diversity in age, but I have no idea what is going on with this entire thread. If anyone reading these posts wants to translate what they are talking about to someone old enough to have had Netrunner cancelled on them twice, I would personally appreciate it. I also don’t understand the complaints - are they worried any new cards or rules from the committee won’t be fun? I usually complain about Netrunner in reference to cards and how a style of deck with that card or other cards plays. I see some Netrunner complaints here but I haven’t noticed the mention of any cards.

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Are you having difficulty understanding what people are saying, or are you having difficulty understanding the relevance?

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I believe it must be both. When I complain about something Netrunner it is always about a card and/or a deck. Not always, I do sometimes complain about locations and timing of events. I don’t see anyone here expressing any such concerns, or if they are I can’t decipher those concerns from the postings. I don’t understand how the very existence of a board that hasn’t done anything other than constitute itself and announce that constitution is already getting complaints. If they do nothing else for another year I will be complaining about the lack of activity in the year.

When I complain about cards, decks, and events, I usually post my preference as a possible solution to those problems. Here again I don’t see any explicit call to action.

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45

At this point, you’re right, besides establishing some high level roles and appointing leadership there hasn’t been anything specific done. The complaints have mainly, as I’ve seen it, been about the process. Is this process representative of a truly global fan base? Is this process transparent and fair? At the onset of a project like this these concerns take an oversized proportion of people’s attention because we’re at the stage of planning and organizing what’s to be done. Leadership will play a big part in that.

Given what I’ve seen in the Netrunner community, there will be plenty of time and plenty of enthusiasm arguing over cards and designs and the like. But we’re setting the stage for those conversations. Now that leadership has been appointed a lot more of the nuts and bolts stuff can happen.

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46

@rumirumirumirumi also the spirit, which is point #1.

Seeing so much people having difficulty to understand the point is part of why I have concerns with “only English spirit”.

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Closing temporarily to follow up on my promise to keep the discussion under control. Will reopen shortly.

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52

Some assigned male at birth are called She/Her and some assigned female at birth are called He/His.
There is other modern pronouns, in english, to take account of people’s own sensivities about it.

This is typical about talking inclusivity in english culture but would cost you jail in some countries Nisei don’t care : it have been said about these problems there would be no tolerance, and in some countries you may have legal troubles for talking about that.

English tolerance have its limits too : for exemple, about that life/choice debate, it’s some sort of a medieval debate in other countries (in mine for exemple).
With a board consisting about english language exclusivly, would we seriously question puritanism ? I guess not.

Tolerance for Eros themes > Tolerance for Thanatos themes in Europe.
Tolerance for Thanatos themes > Tolerance for Eros themes in the US.

Eros/Thanatos is a term used in literature.

Talking about love and sentiments, every topic about it, is more ok in Europe than in the US. Talking about violence, every topic about it, is more ok in US than in Europe.

Cultural products seen in Europe or US just shows this : you don’t hide the same shows to children.
You would tend to hide violent shows, with Thanatos themes, to children in Europe, because they are less morally acceptable.
You would tend to hide naked bodies, with Eros themes, to children in US, because they are less morally acceptable.

There are firearms made for children in the US, for exemple : this shocks any single french I know. Facebook banning “l’origine du monde” (which painting may be NSFW to google) from its social networks shows our sensibilities about what you would have ease to talk about are different.

etc, etc, etc.

A monolangage board can’t see these sensitivities naturally and to me people needs to be aware of that.
I don’t care people are coming from here or there. I do want girls in the board, ideally 50/50.
But what I also have concerns with is language and cultural isolationism.

I’m 41. I think my generation and younger ones see more cultural gaps between cultures than gaps between same or cousin cultures with boy, girls or non-binary gender.

I don’t understand why it’s ok to be shy about one of those two things.

I hope this is clearer for people who thinks “why the guy is ranting again”.

-edit- sorry to people that I bothered with my clumsiness about the philology I used. I’m not fluent with these terms.

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I have lately found myself noticing more, and being more disturbed by, the unending presence of guns and violence in american media, especially in the last few years. Now that you mention it, netrunner does show way more restraint in depicting sex than it does for guns. The game is about a dystopian society so I don’t know where the right balance is, but I hope the board will consider it carefully.

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54

A Cyberpunk theme should stay violent, if you see this with an art direction mind.

Gibson, whose works were used for the Cyberpunk rpg that old Netrunner birthed from, used violence for every single part of his universe : sex, drug and rock’n roll.

These are what the genre is made of.

Now it depends about what you want to put in it. Gibson used this to denounce the society tendencies he lived in.
The only problem is the society he depicted is pretty close to the society we’re living in now : political messages evolved (for exemple, ecology was less a vibrant problem in the 80’s that it is now), “as planned” intolerance grew (from the very libertarian 80’s to the neocon 20’s we’re living in). In a way, feminism was less an growing issue in Gibson’s works than it is in the current world. Because Gibson, I think, may have think these question would be solved in the end of the 80’s. Maybe he had a wrong perception about how deep the problem resides.

Violence is less punk that depicted by Gibson. Punk violence was, in a moral way, “better”, because it was fuelled by freedom envies. People from the 80’s reading his books could identify to his heroes.
(-edit- even if most of us could identify to people saying the f word to their bosses)

Today’s violence is fueled by hate envies, and if an anticipation works is to depict this, and say “it will be worse tomorow” like the Cyberpunk motto is, I’m not sure going more into this field is really wishable - because players have to identify to the side they picked in a match.

I think FFG saw this and said “hmm, let’s say hate is all about androids, would it work ?”
(-edit- again, in Deus Ex Human Revolution, their violence is also fueled by hate. “Modified people are cheaters”, very close to what Human First thinks. Another exemple is in the serial “Real Humans / Äkta Människor”, where modern cyberpunk violence is fueled by hate. Like Blade Runner. Not very “Gibsondian”, since Blade Runner themes are from K. Dick :slight_smile: ). All of this bring transhumanism themes.

Gibson was more about liberty / slavery. These are Anarch themes. They are the easiest to read through.
Shaper, I think, could have been ecoterrorists but I’m not sure FFG got the guts to go there. There is a violence fuel when the society stomp on your ideals.
Criminals have ordinary, classical, noir violence, but it is more difficult to qualify motivation themes behind I think. they could be the transhumanists, because to be transhumanists, you have to dance with the devil the corps or the system pictures. Now it’s a not a very good reason to fuel violence, because the only fuel I see there is “greed to evolve”. “They are violent because they are criminal” is kind of cheap.

You won’t have problems to identify to corps, because, in a way, it’s funny to be a bastard, in a game.

Oh, i don’t think I’m clear again… Sorry.

Thanks a lot to you and @shanodin about what you did on that previous post, both of you deserve credit for your patience :slight_smile:

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