Feeder costs 2 less than Casts if you were going to install a virus that turn anyway.
If you’re not drawing your engine cards, you’re drawing your cheap pressure viruses like sucker, lamprey, imp, and parasite. You should be installing 1 per turn and running to slow down the corp and buy time to get your engine up. If you just dig for your engine and don’t pressure and install viruses you fall so far behind. Cyberfeeder is active the entire time you pressure like this.
Notice that I do play 2 Gambles in addition to the 2 Feeders. Daily Casts for me is a weird mid-way point between Gamble and Feeder. I’d rather play a mix of the two extremes than the middle option, since the extremes are FAR more potent when they are good.
This is how I see it, I think its far more complex than strict math will indicate in actual game play. I also lean more on real breakers than your average noise player, so directly piping those credits into breakers as needed also ensures that they get used enough to matter. I generally go 2 feeder 2 casts, 0 gambles.
After playing my admittedly weak local meta and back on Noise again, can I say outloud via text that I fucking love playing Noise.
No, it doesn’t. If you’re going to install a 1 Cost Virus as well, it’s an ‘econ’ card that requires two clicks of investment and some viruses you were going to play that cost 1, whilst not gaining you any money to help set up for your future endeavours. If you can manage a turn (starting from 0 credits) of gain gain feeder virus, you could manage a turn of gain gain gain daily casts. You end both examples with your cards installed. Cyberfeeder isn’t any easier to get payoff than Daily is (you’ll note that in only one of those turns you start next turn with 2c).
Though you obviously install viruses a lot as Noise, it’s wrong to say that you want to install at least one Virus every single turn (even if you do in most turns). There are sometimes better plays to make, and Cyberfeeder can make you play a way that would otherwise be suboptimal to try and squeeze out efficiency from your otherwise inefficient card. Making the assumption that it is 100% of the time correct to every turn install a virus is not really grounded in reality.
I’ve been testing out Technical Writer in Noise. I started before the MWL was announced, and I think it’s a little worse since it’s announcement (since less Clone Chips means less installs from both the Chips and the programs), but I’m still feeling it out. I don’t have tons of games with it, since I’ve been super busy over the last month, so it might turn out to simply be not as good as builds without it. Here’s what it looks like so far:
Right now, I’m using Cyberfeeders over Dailys in order to try and maximize the Writers. With testing so far, I do somewhat agree with @Xenasis that the Feeders might be worse than the Casts, in that Cyber can’t help you limp through a shitty early draw in the same way that Casts can. Technical writer somewhat exacerbates this as well, since you only get the Writer fire when you’re actually installing something, which takes money on hand. I still want to test it as-is for a bit, but it might be better to throw the Casts in over the Feeders, despite the lack of synergy with Writer.
It also might be that Writer is just wrong for the deck, but it is really nice to get that flux of cash back once you’ve spent it all on installations. With Feeder, a lot of what you install ends up at a near zero sum after cashing in a Writer, and in the later game where there might not be enough installs left in the game for Writer to be worth hanging around, you can always install him for a 3-credit Aesop’s the next turn, turning it into a kinda delayed Easy Mark.
Anyhow, might be sup-par, but I thought I’d throw it out there and see what others thought. Someone out there has got to have tried this, so maybe someone can tell me if I’m wasting my time
I like the list. What I did in testing with TW was to put in 3 Sahasara and play the “big board” noise, only I included incubators and vamp, and did the gross things that that does. The writers got huge because 2 Rara can really fuel a bajillion installs. I used Djinn to find and hold viruses as I approached critical mass. It sucked vs FA because a lot of it was set up (make no mistake you can attack while building), so maybe now such a list is better, especially the unexpected power of Vamp in Noise, and due to NBN taking a hit.
This. No economy cards are needed in your standard faust noise. You just don’t need the money apart from the cache/aesops.
The only question is if -2 clone chip will make you switch to more proper breaking instead of parasite/faust/david breakers. In that scenario you would probably want to include more money, but that is still to be tested if it’s needed.
Instead of playing 1x clone chip you could use the influence for 3 drug dealers and free 3 slots, just to try some different build. I think drug dealer could work well with cyberfeeder. Will try and see how it goes.
I can vaguely see this. It might be worth trying. What combination of other draw are you planning to have in the deck?
It’s worse than wild cakes but better than just wyldside. With Aesop and cyberfeeder you can have 6 creds worth of Noise and not even pay for your habit.
I think it’s a reasonable comparison since they both compete for Noise’s remaining economy cards after Aesop’s and Cache. I don’t hate Cyberfeeder, I just think in most cases Daily Casts is better; I think it could work well enough for you since you said that you run both Cyberfeeder and Daily Casts and that you use standard breakers more.
I feel Daily Casts is better for a number of reasons. You net 6 credits if you sell it with Aesop’s. It would take Cyberfeeder 7 or 8 turns to pay out that much, while Daily Casts pays out in 3 or 4 turns, depending on when you sell it. Daily Casts gets you real credits while Cyberfeeder is recurring for virus installs and breaking subroutines, and it doesn’t specifically gain credits for you but saves credits, so Daily Casts is much more useful early on before you have your full combo set up.This can make a big difference when you’re trying to gather the money needed to install Wyldside, Pancakes, Aesop’s, etc. Also, the economy from Cyberfeeder is conditional. Granted, this isn’t a huge factor in Noise, but still something to consider. I feel that all of this weighs out against Cyberfeeder costing one credit less to install and potentially saving you more money over the course of 9+ turns.
A little unfair on the analysis, as you can always sell Cyberfeeder too. So that brings it down to 5 turns compared to Daily Cast’s 3 turns (selling both), or 7 turns compared to 4 (selling neither). I think that’s right.
Yeah, true. I was going more with the idea that you would almost always want to sell Daily Casts, while deciding when/if you want to sell Cyberfeeder isn’t as clear. Very good point though.
I don’t think you will need more proper breakers now. Clone Chip allowed you to facecheck without any impunity. Now a lot more expensive all you need to do now is to survive the facecheck, which will happen most of the time already without the pressure to find a Mimic very quickly once you hit Architect. Deja-Vu and Parasite will sort out the board in time.
I also decided to try cutting CC completely, replacing them with 3rd I’ve Had Worse, 3rd Lamprey and a Levy (since addition of Street Peddler and Faust I managed to go to the end of my deck quite often). So far played one game against PE and of course was very happy with it, need to check other matchups.
Again, if the argument is that Casts is much better very early, then why not just play Gamble (which I do).
It then follows that a mix of Gambles and long-term econ is probably better than only gambles. If I have a Gamble I would much rather Also have a feeder than a Casts (or a 2nd Gamble). I think the total credit savings over an entire game DO matter. In the average RP game I use a turn 2 cyberfeeder 13+ times. This drip over the course of the game means that you can deja vu for useful viruses rather than cache. This is the true benefit of the more potent economy cards like Feeder and Schez.
Why are you building your deck to be better against RP at the cost of everything else? You’re Noise. That’s not a matchup that Noise should struggle with. Cyberfeeder is a greater tempo hit than Daily Casts, and can probably just mean RP can rush out against you if it found enough Operation econ and you’re stuck installing Cyberfeeders.
I’d rather have slightly ‘suboptimal’ Deja Vu lategame (I don’t need to constantly scrabble for more copies of Cache like you seem to make out, and Dejas are not regularly Cache Cache, but supposing I do need to constantly scrabble for money) and have a stronger game overall. You can play Gamble, but that doesn’t install off Peddler, costs 5 instead of 3, and gets significantly worse past the first few turns. Daily Casts is better at all stages of the game compared to Cyberfeeder because it pays off far faster and doesn’t require special attention to pay off.
Sure, Cyberfeeder can be really good in the games it pays off for 13 turns, but you have to understand that that’s not the average case, and taking a tempo hit from a card that doesn’t do anything on its own is not a place you should want to be when playing an ID that struggles early but naturally gets crazy later in the game. Credit savings over the course of a game matter, yeah (see Kate), but taking a tempo hit to not generate credits can be devastating and leave you way behind (see Cybsoft MacroDrive), and installing them, ironically, makes the game finish faster.
You shouldn’t really be needing longterm econ as Noise and if you’re finding yourself desperately needing econ even after you’ve got your Aesops and Wyldside/Chronotype going, perhaps you should take another look at your econ choices.
