Ones and Fives

Netrunner General
22

It is only an assumption, but I imagine the reason we have 1 and 5 credit pieces and not 1 and 3 credit pieces is because they weren’t designed for optimal time-savings for people too busy with their lives to pick up two little bits of cardboard rather than one, but rather for optimal clarity.

If Netrunner had been invented in a culture with a counting system based on a number divisible by 3 (base-12 or base-60 perhaps), perhaps it would be different.

(Note that this optimal clarity is destroyed when you pile your credits into an indistinct heap in a manner reminiscent of Smaug the dragon and that by doing so you, like him, are a monster.)

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23

it depends on the source of the credits. Adonis, 3, eve 2, hedge, 2 2s, restructure, 5 or 2 2s and a 1. Again youre abstracting credits through tokens when you should just know how much they have. Tokens should be lastt ditch to figure out if you both lost track. Youre responsible for knowing the credits as part of managing the gamestate.

24

Dice or tokens, I don’t really care, so long as I can understand it by looking at it. If I have to ask my opponent to know their credit total, I will ask every time they touch their credits what the numbers are.

Personally, I use the core set tokens (I have a variety of plastic ones, but I don’t really like them) on the edge of my mat so my opponent and I can easily keep track of them. It’s open information for both of us.

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25

Tokens should be lastt ditch to figure out if you both lost track

Maybe I just really suck at the game, but I’ve never been able to completely keep track of both player’s credits in my head. I have a rough estimate, like 0, really low, low, enough, and rich or something and just go by the feel of it, but even if someone came up and asked me out of nowhere how many credits I exactly have I probably wouldn’t be able to answer without looking and counting up. I do check both my pool and my opponent’s pool often though to get exact counts and it makes it super easy if they are neat with their tokens/dice.

Agree 100%. I made my own tokens early last year to make it super easy to both manipulate and keep track. I should probably try to sell them.

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I’ve since moved on to #teamdice though. Large, easy to read dice at the top of the playmat maxed out on the 5 pip face is the best way to keep track of credits. Once I get above $30ish, I usually stack them 2 rows high so you can count by 10s even. Takes about 1 second to figure out how many credits I have.

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26

I currently use PennyGem tokens. My concerns when looking at which tokens I want to use are enumerated thusly:

  • Can read them from across the table.
  • Take up little table real estate.
  • Easily manipulated.
  • Unambiguous.

Large D6s also work. (D20s can roll to another side too easily; I used them for a while.)
The PennyGems beat out the default tokens because if you stack both sets up, you can easily count the PennyGems, while you can’t easily count the cardboard ones. And since saving tablespace is a concern, being able to stack my tokens is a requirement. I also like to put credits on my ID because it clearly indicates which stack of tokens is my actual credit pool and which stack of tokens is out of play.

They’re easy to read from across the table because there are only 1’s and 5’s, and they’re distinctly different sizes. Because of their shape, they’re easy to pick up off the table and move around, and because they stack and cling to each other, I can easily make Adonis/Daily Casts/Eve stacks and perform the action quickly and without anyone being confused.

I do believe that if you aren’t using PennyGems, using lines of default tokens are fine; just don’t stack/pile them please. Dice are also acceptable. TC tokens are fine… Broken Egg make me sad, though. :frowning:

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27

Netrunner player here; just wanted to weigh in that the LITKO tokens, when piled up, are actually an extremely effective way of obfuscating your board state. It just looks like a transparent yellow blob.

I have a player in my local meta who uses them, and I’m half convinced they intentionally try to conceal their credit pool with it. He’s good enough about cleaning it up when asked though.

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28

I am less concerned about what tokens are used than token placement. I prefer people put them somewhere near the top of their mat. Either side is fine; I do right-hand. This just makes it so much easier to get a quick glance at your pool.

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29

I’m a big fan of the Covenant tokens and have been using them more or less since I started playing in tournaments. After using their starter set for awhile, I ended up ordering more 1’s and 5’s along with some other denominations and random tokens (“Seduction” tokens, almost exclusively used as Astro and MKII counters).

I thought that tracking things like Adonis Campaign or Kati Jones with 3 piece credits would be awesome, but it turns out that it just leads to a jumbled mess of a credit pool that is impossible to read at a glance so I’ve effectively retired the 2’s and 3’s from my active supply.

I will agree with others in this thread though in that I don’t really care what my opponent does as long as it doesn’t obscure any information. My only real pet peeve is when people use D6’s and actually use the “6” side. I’d rather read 19 as 5/5/5/4 than 6/6/6/1 for example.

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30

For me, a bigger issue is watching Netrunner on YouTube. The angle of the camera is often overhead and not all streamers/youtubers have the technology or inclination to overlay the players’ credit totals. I don’t know why players insist on such fiddly and irritating expressions of personal choice. What’s next, human teeth or bullet casings? Just use something normal.

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31

I use a pair of JUMBO yellow d10s with black numbers for my credit pool. They’re heavy enough to not get bumped easily, and big and bright enough that anyone can read them. Never had a complaint yet.

Everything else is whatever random poly dice I got in my bag, mostly d6s and d10s. My only rule for other stuff is the die has to contrast with the card I put it on enough to not blend in. Oh, and I tend to save the blue one for tags. I do carry a pair of the promo 1c tokens for psi games, though.

2- and 3-credit tokens are annoying and cause me to constantly ask how much money you have, but if it works for you, have at it.

32

You say that like it’s bad, but I am totally doing this for my next Weyland deck

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33

I’ve started making an effort to track my opponent’s total (at my last tournament the streamers had a bit of confusion figuring out which pile was mine and which was my opponent). This does double duty when your opponent has weird tokens, as you’re constantly confirming with them that your credit total is the same as theirs.

34

That’s what I always try to do. I use TC tokens and most of the time I only use the 1s and 5s but when I do use the 2s and 3s (Daily Casts, Adonis, etc), I always have them in rows that add to 5.

I know there are tournament rules on the types of tokens you can use but are there any rules on what you cannot do with them (like stacking them, for example)?

35

If my opponents make piles or rows of five then I am happy with them using whatever they like as long as one unit can only represent one value. Personally, I only use 1s and 5s because I think it is the polite thing to do, those denominations were shipped with the core set.

I used dice for credits (especially in ONR) but there were too many problems and no time savings. I still use heavy dice that don’t roll easily for some counters but even then I generally just use one side. E.g. Temüjin Contract with 5 dice set to 4. That way my opponent and I can easily read how many triggers are left and how much each is worth.

Overall, I think it is important that the information that is represented by counters or tokens is clearly visible, easy to read and understand, does not block out other information, not subject to table bumps (Earthquakes are fine, I think the counters are of a lesser concern in that situation…), and not easy to alter. The overall goal should be that both players should be comfortable reading the information of both sides of the table at all times.

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36

I’m on #TeamPokerChips! In tournaments I only use ones and stack them up to five at the top of my mat (closest to chips container).

The chips I have are mini clay poker chips, not the ridiculous oversized chips that @anon50033301 and @beyoken use :laughing:

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37

As someone who doesn’t play IRL very often, but does watch a lot of Netrunner on YouTube, I’ve found that the easiest tokens to keep track of by far are the Core Set 1s & 5s. I had always used dice to track my creds before, but after watching game after game online and being frustrated by not being able to read dice faces, Broken Egg denominations, metal token colors and more, I realised how well designed and easy to discern the Core Set tokens really are. I’ve started using them IRL as well and I’ve noticed that it’s much easier for both me and my opponent to quickly read our credit pools.

The only exception is that I use large, easy to read D6s to track things like Kati Jones/Daily Cast money and stuff like that since moving tokens back and forth that much is a lot of work.

I think the big takeaway here is to have common courtesy and be willing to adapt for your opponent. Keep a set of Core Set tokens with you just in case your opponent requests you use them. Most people probably won’t care, but it’s good to be prepared just in case. It’s all about creating a positive play environment for both players.

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38

Always makes me sad to see Broken Egg Token hate. I love those things :frowning:

That said, it’s real easy to be a dick with them because they’re so non-standard. I always put them at the top of my playmat, in a row, ordered by value, and attempt to remember to put the denomination mark toward my opponent. I use the 2s and 3s (makes Daily Casts and Adonis really convenient), but I always condense down to 5s when I get more than a few of each. If I ever get into a situation where I’m running out of 5s, I stack the 2s and 3s on top of each other to “make” a 5. Clarity of information is my priority.

If you’re putting those things on your ID, or leaving them haphazardly disordered around your mat, then you’re a poopy butt.

I also keep a stack of dice around (dark colored with white dots, so you can actually see them from afar). Generally use them for power counters (the base Broken Egg set doesn’t come with nearly enough!) or other general-purpose counters. I’d use them for money, too, if my opponent was insistent. Usually I’m polite enough with the regular tokens that it’s not an issue.

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39

I do put my money on my ID usually. And I do use TC w/ 1s 2s 3s and 5s.

I guess it’s a habit I picked up from my poor organization scheme. I used to carry around my tokens in a tiny ziplock bag and just ungraciously dump them out on the table. I wanted to put my tokens in a place where they couldn’t possibly get confused with the sea of tokens. Also, it’s not uncommon for me to play two games at once if an odd number of people show up for our casual game nights, which leads to situations where I might not be able to say if this token was/was not supposed to be in my credit pool, or if it just washed ashore from the sea (due to fumbling with tokens and not paying attention).

I’ve since invested the $1 in a crafts organization case. Maybe I should start putting my money in more visibly-discernable rows on my playmat(s). I guess I just never really considered it up until now, but haven’t really received any complaints either. I do try to trade in my money for 5s If I ever feel like it’s not immediately obvious what’s in my pool, and I avoid stacking them (so each token is clearly visible).

40

I think there are two things going on in the thread that are related but not really the same:

  1. Clarity of the components being used
  2. Clarity of the way they are setup

I think for custom tokens you should always explain your tokens and ask if the person is ok with your tokens and if they are not be willing to switch to the cardboard tokens. I brought tokens to tournaments this year and i always got out my tokens, showed them the credit values and then asked if that was cool. No one said no, but if someone had I had a bag of the cardboard tokens with me.

As far as where to put money, I think at the front of your mat is a must. I see people all the time pile money on their ID and it eventually becomes impossible to really know how much money they even have. Stacks of 5 is preferable to some, but I’ve always put my tokens in decending order of value to make it clear how much I have and how much each token is worth.

W/R/T making sure the tokens are clearly different, I use the 1,2, and 5 credit tokens from BoardGameFactory on Etsy. The thing I like about them is that each one is a distinct shape, which, in addition to using different colors, I feel like it makes very clear which ones are more valuable. My only complaint about them is that the actual monetary value as printed on the tokens is a bit small.

I like the Team Covenant tokens, but even though they get progressively larger, it is often still hard for me to tell which is bigger between the 1,2, and 3 tokens (this is a personal preference, but I also don’t like that the reverse side is two advancement or three advancement, I feel like it’s hard to tell how much a card is advanced). As for the Broken Egg Tokens, I think they’re very handsome, but the thing that I always run into is if the person turns them upside down by accident the 5 looks like a 2. The number of times I thought I had a scoring window and it turned out the runer had 8-12 more credits than I had thought. . .

Edit: You know I just had a thought. I don’t know if this would just be too hard for them to publish, but if FFG did a standardization document for the tokens it would help. Standarizing colors of tokens, the symbols on tokens, and how large the number was on the token all have obvious value. They could even conceivably partner with a vendor to make official plastic tokens, or do like Apple and have an approval process that makes the tokens endorsed in some way.

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41

That’s a big plus, but one thing that would make me REALLY happy is tokens whose width is directly proportional to their value. Then people can have their 2s and 3s from Adonis and NASX, and once they go into the pool each row can be a polychromatic mix of whatever denominations they like, but as long as there’s a 5-credit token for scale, all I have to do is look at it and say “okay, that’s a 5, that row below it is the same length, and the one below that must be two 2s.” (Bonus: making change becomes a soothingly tetris-like activity)

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