The Geist Zeitgeist

Netrunner General
1500

The fact that Rebirth is really bad in Geist probably indicates why Geist isn’t tearing up the tournament scene - the trash effects available just aren’t powerful enough for their cost (yet) to justify playing outside of Geist.

1501

I think it’s less about the trash effects not being powerful enough on their own and more about Geist having an ID ability that you build a deck around. After all, Noise traditionally does well enough in tournaments, but you would almost never want to Rebirth into/out of Noise, just because his ID dictates your deck composition and game plan so hard. With Geist, you end up playing cards that you just wouldn’t want in other IDs (Fall Guy, Forger, etc), similarly to how Noise plays things like Lamprey that you almost never see out of Noise.

4 Likes
1502

Well, maybe. Imp, Parasite, Datasucker are all staples of Anarch decks and very powerful in their own right. Cache and Lamprey are both marginal, but do see play outside of Noise (e.g. Aesop decks and headlock Reina).

The B&E suite and Spy Camera are just way too marginal.

1503

Criminal draw (aside from Drug Dealer) has been generally pretty weak. Rebirth into Geist is bad because you need draw to get to the Rebirth and Geist is the only Criminal that doesn’t need a ton of support to get draw. Whatever benefit you get from a faster setup with Andy (are there any other good criminal starting IDs for rebirth? Silhouette for the deck size?) is offset by the fact that you either need to add draw (which is redundant when you’re Geist) or click-draw a ton until you can change IDs.

1 Like
1504

How have people been teching for the current meta with Geist?

Right now I’ve got a Hades Shard (IG), Film Critic (for TFP and midseasons), and Jak Sinclair (prevent NEH asset spam from sneaking out agendas with impunity). I’ve got 2x hostage mainly for getting tech traders, but also to grab FC/Jak in a pinch.

I’ve also got 1x Deja Vu for running back anything that’s important. So far I’ve mainly used it for polop, hades and as backup for SoT/Levy.

1505

I have list that I have been using to pretty decent success. The rogue Decoy and Forger is to protections from breaking news BS.

Fiesty Geisty

Armand “Geist” Walker: Tech Lord (The Underway)

Event (9)
2x Employee Strike (Data and Destiny) [color=#708090]••[/color]
2x Hostage (Opening Moves)
2x Inside Job (Core Set)
1x Legwork (Honor and Profit)
2x Levy AR Lab Access (Creation and Control) [color=#32CD32]••••• •[/color]

Hardware (12)
1x Forger (The Underway)
2x Replicator (Humanity’s Shadow) [color=#32CD32]••••[/color]
3x Sports Hopper (Salsette Island)
6x Spy Camera (Democracy and Dogma)

Resource (15)
2x Bazaar (Salsette Island)
1x Decoy (Core Set)
3x Fall Guy (Double Time)
1x Film Critic (Old Hollywood) [color=#32CD32]•[/color]
2x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)
3x Tech Trader (Business First)
3x Technical Writer (Data and Destiny)

Icebreaker (10)
1x Corroder (Core Set) [color=#FF4500]••[/color]
2x Crowbar (Chrome City)
1x Femme Fatale (Core Set)
1x Mongoose (Kala Ghoda)
1x Passport (Honor and Profit)
2x Shiv (The Underway)
2x Spike (The Valley)
15 influence spent (max 15)
46 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Salsette Island

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

2 Likes
1506

I don’t think I’ve ever lost to Geist…

4 Likes
1507

I have been crushing people with that. Its hard but much like Noise I am always able to squeek out a messy win with a bullshit rig.

2 Likes
1508

Interesting, this is very similar to my current list.

Key differences:
-2 employee strike: I know it’s good, but I’m trying to feel out this deck against a range of play styles and haven’t hit any really crushing matchups yet. IG is significantly de-fanged with the breaker suite, spy cams, and sports hoppers, and the toughest matchups (rush and FA) don’t get as much of a boost from employee strike.

+1 Legwork: it makes me sad when I see an agenda on the top of R&D, but R&D is too iced up (or JHow is available). Fishing for the agenda with single-access HQ runs is no fun. Plus, this helps out in the FA and rush matchups by scooping agendas before they hit the table. Could be swapped for SoT, which would give you some more flexibility.

-1 Same Old Thing, +1 Deja Vu: With 2 levy’s, I’m less concerned about having multiple SoT on the board. I like the flexibility of running PolOp or tech writer back as needed as well.

-1 Decoy, +1 forger: your point about decoy + forger = avoid BN entirely is a really good one, though I do like being able to install + replicate so I am not without a forger for very long.

-1 tech writer, -1 fall guy: slots are tight, I miss these cards.

+1 crowbar: could probably do without this, but I’m paranoid about getting locked out of scoring remotes with ETR code gates.

This is a super-fun deck.

Spy Camera Geist: long game

Armand “Geist” Walker: Tech Lord (The Underway)

Event (9)

Hardware (13)

Resource (12)

Icebreaker (11)

15 influence spent (max 15)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Salsette Island

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

1509

with no employee strikes I would do this.

Fiesty Geisty

Armand “Geist” Walker: Tech Lord (The Underway)

Event (7)
2x Hostage (Opening Moves)
2x Inside Job (Core Set)
1x Legwork (Honor and Profit)
2x Levy AR Lab Access (Creation and Control) [color=#32CD32]••••• •[/color]

Hardware (12)
1x Forger (The Underway)
2x Replicator (Humanity’s Shadow) [color=#32CD32]••••[/color]
3x Sports Hopper (Salsette Island)
6x Spy Camera (Democracy and Dogma)

Resource (16)
2x Bazaar (Salsette Island)
1x Decoy (Core Set)
3x Fall Guy (Double Time)
1x Film Critic (Old Hollywood) [color=#32CD32]•[/color]
2x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)
3x Tech Trader (Business First)
3x Technical Writer (Data and Destiny)
1x The Source (Creation and Control) [color=#708090]••[/color]

Icebreaker (11)
1x Corroder (Core Set) [color=#FF4500]••[/color]
3x Crowbar (Chrome City)
1x Femme Fatale (Core Set)
1x Mongoose (Kala Ghoda)
1x Passport (Honor and Profit)
2x Shiv (The Underway)
2x Spike (The Valley)
15 influence spent (max 15)
46 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Salsette Island

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

1510

How much value do you get from Bazaar in these lists? It seems like it’s jjust for spy camera, is that worth it?

1511

It can save you 5 - 10 clicks in a game. That’s pretty good! It doesn’t really pass the test of “don’t play a card that’s only good in a combo,” but you draw a lot and having one or two narrow slots isn’t so bad.

1 Like
1512

congrats?

1 Like
1513

Haha, no, I didn’t mean it like that, I was just thinking out loud why the community has a huge attraction to this ID when it’s doesn’t work (or has never worked against me).

1 Like
1514

I’m personally attracted to the ID because it seems to lead to approaches that mitigate the key criminal weaknesses of card draw and recursion. Geist is a draw machine, and he encourages builds that have lots of redundancy (cloud breakers, trashable hardware, etc).

Plus, he hates wearing a shirt and loves making grand gestures, which is cool.

3 Likes
1515

It’s the first Crim ID that isn’t optimally played with Sec Testing/Desperado. It’s really refreshing to play blue cards completely differently.

But I can’t get it working either, and I tried really hard.

3 Likes
1516

Iain might want to have a word with you about that claim.

1517

I think the Geist-Noise comparison up thread is pretty apt and points to why he’s a compelling ID. He has a bunch of cards that just synergise so well with his ability. Also, drawing cards in the best. That’s why I play Geist.

NEW TOPIC what’s the minimum number of non-trash ability cards you can put in a Geist deck? I’ve been experimenting with some truly ridiculous lists that are almost entirely trashable cards. I feel like at minimum you need:

  • Levy
  • 3x Tech Trader
  • Mongoose
  • 1 other permanent breaker (Corroder or Zu most likely)

The decks are actually surprisingly strong but the utter lack of multi-access kills them. I guess 1x Makers, 1x Legwork might be necessary if you want to win at any level.

1518

i got 6th at NZ Nationals last year with Geist and won a store champ this year as well

i don’t think he’s necessarily hard to play, but i think he’s a completely different kind of runner than any other (let alone a completely different kind of criminal). with complete honesty, i’ve probably played more games as Geist than any other ID, and there is a lot of stuff to get used to. when and how to run and where. a lot of avenues you can take aren’t immediately obvious. for example, with all of his current support cards, you can start a run with 0 cards, 0 credits, a haphazard rig of a couple of breakers and a clone chip, and end it with mountains of credits and cards. that i think is the main appeal of Geist. you can go full on super aggressive to the point that you drain yourself completely, letting the corp think that they have a scoring window, and then go in for the steal, making money while you do it.

trash Same Old Thing and have Tech Trader pay for that Legwork you wanted to use again. plus, draw a card.
trash Clone Chip and have Tech Trader pay you to install that Spike, charging up Technical Writer; trash the Spike to get past Eli 1.0, getting paid again; use Crescentus to derez it, getting paid again… plus, draw 3 cards

once the engine is going, everything starts firing, and the whole machine starts putting in serious work

i also think there’s a lot of weird stuff people are trying that doesn’t really work that well

for example, i love Technical Writer because, along with his cloud breakers, i usually have around 20 programs/hardware to install each game. that’s a lot of uptime for charging those. plus, i get to draw a card with it, and even if i haven’t charged one up at all, i can drop one down and get money from Tech Trader as well, meaning it’s not solely an early game card anymore

but then i see a deck that doesn’t use any Technical Writers but also tries to justify using Off-Campus Apartment but only puts in like… 10 connections. TW is less influence, more synergy, and yes, you ‘get it now’ with OCA, but you can also charge multiple TWs at the same time

i also see that as soon as Clone Chip was added to the MWL, everyone dropped it completely. i’m running 2 now, and i might consider going to 1, but even at 3 influence, Clone Chip is absolutely amazing. it will always be another copy of something else you want because it’s something you’ve already trashed and used (or lost to damage, but whatever). what’s more, you can get paid with Tech Trader to install the program if you’re at 0 credits. it’s a million times better than Savoir-faire, which from what i can tell, is only included on the chance you’ll draw the right breaker

i also see a lot of decks running Inside Job, and i don’t understand it at all. Spike / Crowbar / Shiv are basically Inside Jobs (granted, only up to 3 subs, only as much strength as your total breakers, only one specific kind of ICE, doesn’t get past on encounter effects…), BUT: they get you a card when you use it, cost less and pay more. along that same point, i’ve seen lists without his cloud breakers, and when i question it, i hear ‘but it’s so many deck slots!’
but it’s pseudo bypass, econ with Technical Writer and Tech Trader, draw acceleration with Geist’s ability, sooo much synergy in an otherwise pretty terrible card (Spike getting past an Eli 1.0 on its own is the equivalent of Easy Mark, but it takes an MU or 2 link, costs 1 more credit, needs an Eli, etc. etc. etc., absolutely terrible on its own). i can understand dropping one or two here and there, but i run with the full 9 and never regret it.

i also don’t understand the lack of running with multi access. i remember a lot of old lists with 1 RDI and 1 HQI, and i have to say that it never felt like enough. now i see some with maybe 1 Legwork. i haven’t had a chance to test Spy Camera yet, but i’m keen to give it a go. i’d have to rework the deck to figure out how to make it work. i think i’d try 1-2 Bazaar, but i can’t see Replicator being worth the influence when Spy Camera already does a decent amount of work on its own anyway and doesn’t necessarily need an ‘install everything’ aspect

one final note: Autoscripter is such a trap, but there could be something cool with Sacrificial Construct

here’s the list i’m currently running:

https://netrunnerdb.com/en/deck/view/659473

Run and find out

Armand “Geist” Walker: Tech Lord (The Underway)

Event (8)
3x Account Siphon (Core Set)
2x Legwork (Honor and Profit)
1x Levy AR Lab Access (Creation and Control) [color=#32CD32]•••[/color]
2x The Maker’s Eye (Core Set) [color=#32CD32]••••[/color]

Hardware (8)
2x Clone Chip (Creation and Control) [color=#32CD32]☆☆ ••••[/color]
3x Forger (The Underway)
3x Sports Hopper (Salsette Island)

Resource (15)
3x Bank Job (Core Set)
3x Fall Guy (Double Time)
1x Political Operative (Democracy and Dogma)
2x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)
3x Tech Trader (Business First)
3x Technical Writer (Data and Destiny)

Icebreaker (12)
1x Corroder (Core Set) [color=#FF4500]••[/color]
3x Crowbar (Chrome City)
1x Mongoose (Kala Ghoda)
1x Peacock (What Lies Ahead)
3x Shiv (The Underway)
3x Spike (The Valley)

Program (2)
2x Crescentus (A Study in Static)
13 influence spent (max 15-2☆=13)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Salsette Island

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

a few notes:

Sports Hopper is freaking amazing in Geist. for the obvious reason of the extra card draw (so it’s a one-card-less, influence-free Quality Time), but also: it charges up Technical Writer and Tech Trader pays you for cashing it in, which mitigates the 3c install cost a lot (potentially overpaying on the return). also, it provides link, which lets you actually use Forger to avoid/remove tags (again, making and saving money in the process) without losing cloud and not having to run crap like Dyson MemChip
also, i thought i would swap to Reflection when it released, but i’m still liking Forger. being able to remove tags (and on the corp’s turn) is great. you can still get a tag from Breaking News, but at least you won’t get into a Traffic Accident before you trade in your Sports Hopper

Bank Job is seriously amazing. you can throw it down and making one of those at-almost-no-credits runs i mentioned and get another 7 on top of it. i run at empty remotes with ICE in front of it all the time (normally a bad idea) because i can get paid while doing it plus get the Bank Job money on top of it

Peacock is really only there to save influence, but it’s actually not terrible compared to Zu.13. yes, Passport is way cheaper, and Rex is reusable, but a big code gate i see on remotes is Turing, which is 4 credits to break with Peacock or 4c and a token to break with Rex, at the same install cost, and it’s more expensive with Zu.13 and can’t be broken by Passport anyway. Tollbooth is in a similar boat. don’t see much Little Engine. Archangel i usually just go through the trace, since my link is about 2-3 in most games. Enigma is honestly the most annoying, and Rex would be a bit better there, but i typically just lose the click (or run last click). also, Peacock rarely sees play. those permanent breakers are mostly a very late game solution when everything has been used up, Levy has already cycled the deck, and there are little other solutions. but this deck makes a lot of money that using Peacock every now and then doesn’t break the bank. on the same token, i suppose Aurora might be an option, but it’s oh, so terrible in comparison, especially with the number of multi-sub barriers compared to code gates

i’m currently trying to figure out if/how Vamadeva fits into this list, possibly with support from Grappling Hook (it might be good for other big things like Archer and Orion anyway)

i am going to test Turning Wheel when it comes out (shouldn’t be long now, but we’re still waiting in NZ) in lieu of The Maker’s Eye and see how i like it. it will ideally save 2 influence that could be spent possibly swapping Peacock to Zu.13, for example, or throwing in some Employee Strikes (because Blue Sun with early OAIs really hurts this deck a lot)

–

anyway, Geist is great. he definitely does not play like other runners, and i think it’s very likely that some people try him out for laughs, do poorly, and switch to someone else (i’ve seen it happen a lot here in my local play group). he definitely needs a bit of playtime to get used to

3 Likes
1519

I like your list a lot, it is very similar to what I am running, except I moved away from Peacock for Rex. I am considering swapping TME for Turning Wheel, but I am worried I don’t make as many central runs with Geist to charge it up. I mostly make a few high-impact runs, as the setup is very click intensive.

I also don’t run as many copies of Forger.

My main struggle has been early tag storm. I don’t have a lot of credits when I’m applying early pressure, and a pile of tags can make running difficult. The Hoppers help with the flatline threat, but the All Seeing I and Closed Accounts can both hit my tempo really hard against decks that are trying to score fast.

1 Like