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Accelerated Diagnostics after Power Shutdown and Jackson


#1

Is this a thing? Does it actually happen in play?

If it actually needs stopping, could Power Shutdown have X cannot be more than the most expensive hardware or program the runner has in play? If it were a thing in my meta, that would be the gentleman’s agreement I would choose.

Thoughts.


#2

it happens occasionally, those decks can usually win without the combo, it hasn’t been much of an issue


#3

Yes, it’s become A Thing. Yes, it actually happens from time to time. Is it unavoidable or unstoppable? No, but you do have to be aware of how to overcome it, which is usually by beating the Corp’s traces, trashing the key cards for the combo, forcing the corp to burn a Jackson (or just trashing him when you see him), or throwing down double or triple plascrete… Probably the thing that fights this combo more than anything else is not allowing a Jackson Howard to stay on the table for any length of time.

As for your suggestion, I agree with you and I personally think that the card should have had a final caveat: “The value of X cannot exceed the most expensive program or piece of hardware the Runner currently has installed.” FFG is doing a great job with the game so far, and Power Shutdown is one of the first cards I’ve seen them print that is badly-designed or thought-out. I think the intention of the card is to give corp players a way to remove pesky, low-cost programs and hardware such as Datasuckers, Faeries and Clone Chips, while keeping expensive Runner programs and consoles like Femme Fatale, Torch, and Toolbox relatively safe.

Having played Warhammer 40,000 and several other “I go, You go” games where player interaction is reduced or nonexistent during turns, I’ve come to dislike anything that minimizes player interaction. This includes Power Shutdown, Cerebral Imaging “7 points in one turn”, as well as NBN TWIY rush decks.


#4

Some people play this deck and play it competitively. Personally I hate this deck type, and would be very disappointed to play it in a competitive game. Just watch out for the Jackson on the table and a lot of drawing. Favorite play is to have a clone chip or virus propped on Personal Workshop. Once they mill their entire deck with Power Shutdown, and recurse 3 cards with Jackson, install a virus, mill a card and win the game.

I don’t see a lot of top players wanting to play this deck for it’s randomness, non-interactive nature, and the general lack of skill involved to play it. But it’s out there, so beware.


#5

Bullshit, I say.


#6

the combo is more interactive than most fast advance decks. people don’t like it because it’s different and they have a set idea of how a game should look


#7

I was definitely expecting push back on this, but anything that allows me to mill X amount of cards to set up 1 combo for a win doesn’t sound fun.

It takes skill, but not how the game was intended to be played… IMO.

I’ll put it this way, If everyone decided to play this deck, or FFG goes out of there way to make more combos like this, my desire to play this game will be significantly diminished and possibly halted.


#8

You could (and most definitely should) be saying this same thing about fast-advancing 5-pointers out of hand, you know.

Just try to play it yourself. You’ll get a very good feel for just how difficult it is to pull off properly, and how to stop it. Most times, the amount of setup needed and conditions fulfilled to pull it off is totally equivalent to other, less flashy ways of winning.

It is in no way the announced Armageddon some people were pimping it out to be.


#9

The guy evidently doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Running this kind of deck requires more skill than many others. The decision to play Howard or Power Shutdown now to deal with a current problem, or save them for the combo and hope to pull through - this requires a lot a risk assessment skills, experience, and ‘feel’ of the game.

The deck only seems non-interactive if the runner didn’t play against it before. If he knows what to do, he’ll be running like hell trying to kill all those Jacksons and steal the agendas through porous early defences.


#10

I really should finish my tournament report from that Store Championship I won a month ago… My cat-and-mouse game against a Weyland Accelerated Shutdown Scorched combo deck was one of the most interactive and fun games of Netrunner I’ve played in a very long time. And I play a lot of Netrunner. :smiley:


#11

I will say one thing - your HB version is way nastier than all these Weyland kill-wannabe baby comboists running around (simply because it’s much trickier to counterplay) :stuck_out_tongue:


#12

Having thought about it some more, I think it’s probably just a thing that I’ll run up against every now and again. In the same vein Jackson + Project Atlas is something along the lines of a 5 or 6 advanements (2-3 tokens) for a win. Virtruvius doesn’t even need Jackson (although you do need to mill your Scorched Earths and they require influence).

It seems a bit wonky, but I might be over it.

I guess because people are (I am) aware of it, they (I) should be trying to play around it.

I guess I should try to build the wombo-combo deck and see what success I have with it. Then I’ll know.


#13

where is that hb deck? link please! :slight_smile:


#14

It’s the premise of the deck I really care about. Even if it takes a lot of skill to play, if the game goes in this direction it is bad for the game. Can we agree with this? Isn’t this why Netrunner had to be remade in the first place, to avoid one shot combo wins?


#15

No, we cannot. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the combo decks per se. The problem is the domination of certain strategies, be they fast advance, tag&bag, r&d dig, vamp control, or combo. And this, in fact, does not occur at present. You’re scared of imaginary terrorists.


#16

Power Shutdown Combo decks are silly. End of story. It’s tremendously disappointing to me that this card exists and isn’t alongside Jackson Howard on a restricted list, but it’s not because I think it is overpowered, it’s because I think this style of play is lame (edit: specifically the “I mill the rest of R&D into Archives” part—card combos in and of themselves are awesome).

I can’t believe people are willing to defend it enough to get chippy about it.


#17

Isn’t the ‘traditional’ SEA Source-Scorched Earth-Scorched Earth 3 card trick just that? That’s why 90% of runners wear plascrete. You still have to find 3 different cards in your 49. It isn’t any more automatic, which is what I was concerned about when I first heard of it. (I know I’m slow on the uptake, I’ve only just got heavily into ANR). It’s something the runner has to be aware of, that’s a good thing for card games to have. It’s a bit weird, but that’s ok, so are most mechanics in CCGs.

That said, because it doesn’t feel ‘normal’ I’ll still groan if I’m beaten by it!


#18

Being able to mill 40 cards (for example) to manufacture a combo is awful for the game. There is no denying that. Imagine this game having 100 similar ways of winning. The fabric of the game would be torn apart. Perhaps FFG wanted one mega wonk combo in the game to spark this controversy, and make people aware of it, and I guess that could be overall “good” for the game. But if anyone believes FFG should keep making win conditions like this and this is actually good for progress of the game, I would say we play this game for very different reasons, and you are entitled to your opinion.

And for the record, I am not scared of imaginary terrorists, because this deck does not frighten me, it repels me.


#19

I think it would be sad to see power shutdown on a restricted list with Jackson, because it’s a good counter to Corroder which sees an awful lot of play. It adds an interesting decision. And Jackson is a good card, which is almost universal. Given how much search and recursion there is in ANR, the added wonkiness of actually running this combo doesn’t worry me too much. Consider me reassured that it’s not terrible for the game.

I agree that I wouldn’t want to see netrunner become a home for a set of random, outside the standard mechanics parlour tricks that you have to learn, a bit like some of the more cheesy chess openings.

The cheese/surprise factor that means it picks up a lot of points in a tournament setting on lower tables makes me a little uncomfortable. Tag and bag is a thing though, and if you’re running you need to take precautions or face the consequences. This seems to be just one more way to achieve it. It slightly repels me too, which is why I made the original post.