So traces count as game state changes now, I guess?
The Clone Suffrage Movement (CSM) analogy to Subliminal Messaging (SM) doesn’t make much sense to me. The reason you have to reveal Subliminal Messaging is because the property of being SM is what allows you to return it to HQ. That’s not the case here - CSM can return any card - so why the need for reveal?
More generally, there are a couple of things here that suggest Lukas and Damon do not have the same understanding of how Netrunner works, which is pretty disconcerting.
CSM specifies “operation”.
slaps forehead I literally went and read the text before posting to make sure that wasn’t the case, and somehow managed not to read it. Cheers for correcting my idiocy.
I like the clarification he gives on gaining subtypes. Very easy to understand and remember:
Changes in subtypes are tracked cumulatively, but the state of having a subtype is binary.
I don’t actually understand what this part means. Could you explain an example?
There’s an example back in an old FAQ about Tinkering an advanced Changeling. It cumulatively has two minus one instances of barrier, so it has the binary state of being a barrier.
The Corp can always play Punitive Counterstrike because it always initiates a trace.
Initiating a trace counts as changing the game state?? The “can I trigger this ability” rule is so gross : /
No credits left anyone pool yet, but YEAH MAN?
I bet 4$ to 1 that Damon just wasn’t aware of the previous Punitive Counterstrike ruling and that this is a reversion, Lukas just intuitively thinks initiating a trace isn’t a gamestate change and Damon intuitively thinks it is. It’s a good deal worse than a deliberate reversal and evidence of an ugly rule.
Damon is aware of the previous ruling. How is that worse?
Then I lost my 4$ bet, and its not worse.
It would have been nice for the FAQ to denote a reversal
Is the timing on Councilman similar to the timing on prevention effects?
For example, if the corp rezzes a Jackson Howard while a Councilman is installed, can the corp use Jackson’s trash ability before the runner has a chance to derez the Jackson with Councilman? Or can the runner intercede and derez the Jackson before the corp can use the trash ability?
“Whenever” means that Councilman is a triggered effect, so you have the option to fire as soon as the card is rezzed (before they can use any paid abilities). Stopping a Jackson is one of the things Councilman is actually really good at. =)
Are we sure this is how triggered (“whenever”) effects work?
These are the sections from the core rulebook that make me think otherwise:
Whenever there is an opportunity to trigger paid abilities, rez cards and/or score agendas (usually at the beginning of a turn and after each action), the player who is currently taking his turn gets the first opportunity to act. He can trigger as many abilities, rez as many cards, and/or score as many agendas as he wishes in the order of his choosing. When he is finished, the other player gets the opportunity to act. When that player is finished, the first player gets the opportunity to act once again.
Also, there’s this:
Prevent or Avoid
Some card abilities use the words “prevent” or “avoid.” Prevent or avoid effects are the only effects which can disrupt another effect. A prevent or avoid effect states what it is preventing or avoiding, and an effect that is prevented or avoided is not resolved. Prevent or avoid effects can be triggered whenever the effect they are preventing or avoiding is resolving.
The way I read that, in our Jackson example, the corp can rez the Jackson, which triggers the Councilman’s effect, but the runner cannot use that effect until the corp is done taking actions and chooses to pass priority (which amount to the same thing). So the corp could keep priority after rezzing the Jackson and use his trash ability, then pass priority to the runner, whose Councilman now looks pretty ineffective.
Also, the rules specifically say that the only abilities that can interrupt this timing pattern of passing priority back and forth are prevent or avoid effects, a type of effect that Councilman does not have.
If Councilman does not work like a prevent effect, then it seems like it can very easily be played around and is probably not worth a deck slot.
“Trigger” is a confusing, unfortunate choice of words here, and it’s meant to mean activate abilities that cost 0 credits and are used in certain situations, like the one on “Always Be Running”.
Councilman doesn’t disrupt the rezzing of Jackson, he totally gets rezzed. But neither player gets priority to activate abilities until triggers are done resolving, triggers like “put 12 credits on this card when you rez it(adonis)”, “The runner loses one credit(spark)”, and “you may pay credits equal to it’s rez cost”.
The first time “neither player has priority while automatic triggers are occuring” has comeup was the major ruling about using Datasucker to finish off a parasited Tollbooth when the encounter with it begins. Neither player can activate abilities or “trigger” (choose to use anytime abilities) while the “lose 3 credits” automatic trigger is still waiting to resolve, although if multiple automatic triggers are caused by the same event, the person controlling them gets to order them amongst themselves.
You are confusing triggered effects with paid abilities matey.
Why? The next sentence tells you that the ice is installed unrezzed.
I don’t think it needs clearing up personally, as @PaxCecilia says it informs you that it’s installed unrezzed straight away so there’s no confusion in terms of how Midori works. However, the FAQ itself is contradictory to this new ruling:
Ice that is swapped is installed, but the install cost of the ice being swapped does not have to be paid.
And there’s similar text for Toshiyuki Sakai too.
The card that is swapped with Toshiyuki Sakai is installed.
These both seem to directly contradict the recent UFAQ. If a hypothetical Deva had a ‘when installed…’ trigger for, say, power counters, then it would be pointless to swap it in as you’d not get the counters as it hadn’t been installed. (Conversely it could be too poweful if you did get them too).
I guess though that if it did count as an install technical writer could be too good a combo. It’s possible that swap by default means it’s not an install, and these are pointing out an exception, however there’s not been a swap that isn’t an install or doesn’t swap already installed cards so far, so that get-out kinda smells. If swap didn’t imply an install before then Midori should’ve been something like “install another piece of ICE for free from HQ unrezzed in the same position as the ICE you just removed” or something.