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ANCUR Unofficial FAQ


#121

Ha, I missed that one because netrunnerdb has ‘swap’ written as ‘exchange’ for some reason, but not sure it changes anything.

So theres:
Tenma line - both cards must already be installed (ICE <–> ICE)
Raman Rai - neither card can feasibly be installed (HQ <–> Archives)
Mumbad City Grid - both cards must already be installed (ICE <–> ICE)
Allele Repression - neither can be installed (HQ <–> Archives)
Jinteki Biotech - not relevant

Which leaves:

Midori - ICE <–> HQ
Toshiyuki Sakai - Asset <–> HQ

So up until now there’s been no instances of swapped cards not getting installed if the target is installed. Both those trigger cards like Alix Talbot and Amazon Grid presumably?

Did I miss any?


#122

Huh, so it isn’t considered as installation unless it specifically says that the card is installed. Kinda like hosting via paid abilities. Okay.


#123

Part of the problem is that “Installed” is both an adjective (this ICE is installed on this server) and a verb (I just installed this ICE on this server). The text is often ambiguous about which form it is referring to. So an ability like Technical Writer’s “Whenever you install a piece of hardware or a program” refers to the verb (the action of installing), while an ability like Architect’s “Architect cannot be trashed while installed.” refers to the adjective.

So in the case of Deva programs, the Swap verb replaces the Install verb, but after that action is complete, the program can be described by the installed adjective.


#124

That’s a really good point @hbarsquared and that makes thing a lot clearer (or rather the source of confusion is a lot more clear).

To be fair, it makes more sense for swap to not imply an actual install as that’s quite a specific action. So Deva’s are fine, but I suppose that means Midori and Toshiyuki need clarification (i.e. do they trigger some ‘on install’ cards or not)? Or do we just go with the notion that they’re referring to their ‘installed state’ in their text rather than the action of installation?


#125

Midori:

Once per run, when the Runner approaches a piece of ice protecting this server, you may swap that ice with a piece of ice from HQ. The new ice is installed unrezzed.
"Looks like someone is being naughty…"

Her FAQ:

  • Midori can only be used at timing structure of a run 2.
  • Ice that is swapped is installed, but the install cost of the ice being swapped does not have to be paid.
  • If the Runner exposes an ice with Snitch, Midori can still swap the ice unless the Runner jacks out with Snitch.
  • Midori must already be rezzed before the run in order to use her on the first piece of ice protecting the server.
  • Ice installed with Midori can be rezzed with the Amazon Industrial Zone.

There are a couple of things here. From reading the card, I’m assuming swap is the verb, and installed is the adjecteve. That fits with FAQ bullet 2 (since you aren’t installing, you don’t need to pay the costs). On the other hand, the AIZ interaction seems wrong - if you’re not installing, AIZ shouldn’t trigger.

Fortunately, AIZ is borderline unplayable and they’ll both be rotated soon, so it’s unlikely to come up in a formal setting. I think this is one of the unfortunate situations where the FAQ ruling overrides internally consistent logic, which happens sometimes in all games.


#126

Ah, I didn’t clock the last bullet point, nice one. Hmm, yeah, inconsistent, but probably just unimportant really.


#127

Surat City Grid probably destroyed what little chance AIZ had of hitting a sleeve. Toshiyaki Sakai doesn’t seem strictly worse than any other option, though. Is he consistent or inconsistent on this stuff?


#128

I interpret Midori and Sakai as, in their particular cases (and unlike the general case, to which Devas conform), the new ice that you place on the table is installed (as a verb) and triggers any “when installed” abilities.

This is most likely due to Lukas and Damon treating things differently. For Lukas, swap = install, while for Damon it is not so. Just like for Lukas, trace by itself did not constitute a change of game state, but for Damon it does.

So I guess we’re stuck now with Midori and Sakai working differently from other swap cards, simply because they mention the words “ice is installed” in them. And yes, I think they both use the word “installed” as a verb, not adjactive.


#129

Lukas wrote the devas. Toshiyuki and Midori both say installed to make them exceptions. I’m not sure how this is some kind of contradiction.

I do hate “swap” as card text without rules though.


#130

@jakodrako,

The Mumbad Virtual Tour uses the language “must trash it, if able”. How far does the “if able” extend? For instance,

  1. If I have Ghost Runner installed, do I have to use the Ghost Runner credits? (I would think so).
  2. What if I have a Scrubber/Paricia face-down on a Street Peddler? Do I have to use the Peddler to get my Scrubber/Paricia so that I can trash the Virtual Tour?
  3. Suppose I have an SMC and Grimoire on the board, and Cache in my deck. Do I have to use SMC to get Cache (netting me 4-2-1=1 credits) if that enables me to trash the Virtual Tour?

I suppose the same issues arise with Adam, but I think they will become a lot more relevant once Salsette Island hits…


#131

Yes.

No - in fact, you can’t, as you can’t use the paid ability window of Peddler during the access step.

Same as above.


#132

There’s no contradiction, but there is a hilarious ambiguity produced by the fact that “installed” is both a verb and an adjective, and “is” can be both a linking verb and a helping verb. Yay, English language.

Dragar is definitely correct on the three points he answered, but I’m not aware of whether Mumbad Virtual Tour can suck away Imp counters. That might not be something that gets an official answer before the card’s release.


#133

I’m not seeing it. Both Toshiyuki and Midori say “is installed”, which is a verb phrase. Installed is definitely a verb in this sentence from an English and a game language perspective. Or were you talking about other instances?

MVT will definitely require the use of an Imp that hasn’t been used yet.


#134

I think you’re right because I didn’t remember the entire text


#135

Just came in here because I like to check the latest UFAQ before I go to a tournament with new cards (great resource by the way!) - and my eyes nearly popped out when I read the rulings about Mumbad City Hall’s interactions NEH and Heritage Committee. I’m surprised no-one else has spoken up about them.

The weird thing is that, as far as I’m aware, there’s not any clarification in the rules of this game (or any other I’ve played) about what a player actually does with the cards in their hand when they search their deck. Loads of players freely manipulate their cards as they know the order is irrelevant because they’re about to shuffle. A very common way of searching is to flick cards from one hand to the other, effectively reversing the order of the searched cards. I personally often search without being sure what I’ll choose, and so I move all the good candidate cards to one place so I can compare and think about them more clearly.

This being the case, it seems to me that with these rulings it’s perfectly legal for the NEH player to use their City Hall (or Tech Startup, or any other search-install effects), fetch and install their target, leave any card they like on the top of R&D, put R&D back on the table, draw that card, then shuffle. With Heritage Committee, they can do it with 3 cards, and shuffle away the worst card in HQ.

If I’m right that Damon and co haven’t noticed this interaction, then the ruling given here is still problematic even if they decide to fix it by mandating that a player maintains the order of cards in their deck while searching. It wouldn’t take much sleight of hand to change what the top card of R&D is when you’re quickly rifling through it to search for something, and I for one don’t want to have to closely watch the hands of NEH players when they search with the City Hall.

If I’ve missed something and am wrong about all this, please let me know - I really hope I am! I checked the current FAQ, the tournament regulations, and the core set rules; possibly there has been an unofficial ruling, but if so it should be made official soon! If I’m right, this seems like a pretty big problem.


#136

No way. R&D is ordered, and searching absolutely does not allow for changing the order of that pile of cards. The only reason people might order is, as you said, they’re about to shuffle, so it doesn’t matter.


#137

That’s called cheating. Call a judge.


#138

Hm ok. Are we sure? Because I can’t find that stated anywhere in the rules, and it’s common practice, so if so it should definitely be clarified.


#139

Damon has already stated publicly that no clarification on this matter is needed. The rules don’t say you can reorder your deck at any time, so you can’t do it any more than you are allowed to, say, arbitrarily place virus counters on a piece of ice.


#140

Can I clarify what happens if you choose not to find a card with Mumbad City Hall (if indeed you can fail to find a card, I am not sure about this rule exactly so it acts as a double-clarification)?

So, let’s say Player A uses Mumbad City Hall with the intention of maybe Heritage Committee, but Player A only has one copy of Heritage Committee in their deck. They see the top three cards and do not like them. Can they theoretically keep clicking and searching until they find a three they like, in which case they can then draw those three (and shuffle one from their hand away). Basically, the question here is: can you decide which card you’re searching for (or not) after looking through your deck or does it need to be announced beforehand?

If for some reason you somehow can’t fail to find a card (I seem to remember hearing this about Netrunner but the rule is stupid and I think/hope it has been changed), what is the penalty/resolution? Let’s say Player B uses Mumbad City Hall but forgets that it was the only Alliance card they put in their deck, and after searching through their deck realises they don’t have any in there. What happens?