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Astrobiotics


#1

(there are some old Astrobiotics threads, but I figured I’d make a new one)
Recently I’ve been playing:

Near-Earth Hub: Broadcast Center (Upstalk)

Agenda (11)
3x AstroScript Pilot Program (Core Set)
2x Breaking News (Core Set)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Project Beale (Future Proof)

Asset (8)
2x Daily Business Show (All That Remains)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
3x PAD Campaign (Core Set)

Upgrade (3)
3x SanSan City Grid (Core Set)

Operation (12)
3x Biotic Labor (Core Set) ••••• ••••• ••
3x Fast Track (Honor and Profit)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x Sweeps Week (True Colors)

Barrier (6)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof) •••
3x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing)

Code Gate (7)
1x Enigma (Core Set)
3x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus)
3x Quandary (Double Time)

Sentry (2)
1x Architect (Up and Over) ••
1x Dracō (What Lies Ahead)

The only cards I am not sure about:

  • Daily Business Show - I’ve gone back and forth between this and Marked Accounts.
  • Fast Track #3 - might be overkill, especially with 2 DBS
  • Architect, Draco, Quandry #3, Enigma - Architect is a great card, but cutting it would let you run 2 1-influence ice (e.g. Lotus Field, Rototurret). I played Guard instead of Draco for a long time but almost never wanted to rez it. Making the code gates more heavy duty (maybe a 2nd Enigma, or 1 Tollbooth) would improve your ability to tax the runner, but man do I love Quandry’s 1 rez cost.

I’ve also messed around with TWIY*:

NBN: The World is Yours* (Future Proof)

Agenda (10)
3x AstroScript Pilot Program (Core Set)
2x Breaking News (Core Set)
2x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Project Beale (Future Proof)

Asset (3)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)

Upgrade (3)
3x SanSan City Grid (Core Set)

Operation (15)
3x Biotic Labor (Core Set) ••••• ••••• ••
3x Fast Track (Honor and Profit)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x Shipment from SanSan (Second Thoughts)
3x Sweeps Week (True Colors)

Barrier (3)
3x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing)

Code Gate (7)
1x Enigma (Core Set)
3x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus)
3x Quandary (Double Time)

Sentry (3)
3x Dracō (What Lies Ahead)

Lady and Astrolabe are the motivation for this deck: Eli and new remotes suck against them, so you drop them in exchange for a smaller deck (plus the surprisingly good 6 card handsize). I eventually switched back to NEH because Eli is just too good against decks without Lady, but this is still a solid deck.

So, what do you think the best Astrobiotics build is right now?


#2

NEH Astrobiotics (49 cards)

Near-Earth Hub: Broadcast Center

Agenda (11)
3 AstroScript Pilot Program
2 Breaking News
3 NAPD Contract
3 Project Beale

Asset (10)
2 Daily Business Show
3 Jackson Howard
2 Marked Accounts
3 PAD Campaign

Upgrade (3)
3 SanSan City Grid

Operation (10)
2 Biotic Labor
2 Fast Track
3 Hedge Fund
3 Sweeps Week

Barrier (6)
3 Eli 1.0
3 Wraparound

Code Gate (6)
3 Pop-up Window
2 Quandary
1 Tollbooth

Sentry (3)
3 Architect

I don’t know that this list is that much better than another one which might be more meta-tuned, but it’s pretty close to standard right now. Maybe 3 DBS and 1 Fast Track is fine, since once you have DBS going Fast Track is less necessary, but I don’t really know, I never play this bullshit deck. I imagine 3 Architect isn’t optimal now that everyone plays mimic. Maybe you could cut them all and play 3rd biotic and a couple of Pups or something :smile:


#3

Disclaimer: I have never played NEH Fastro. I have played a fair amount of games with TWIY Fastro.

Draco is not a card I am used to seeing in NBN FA. Is it generally set to 0? In my TWIY deck I frequently run on very low credits. Here is the list I was using.

TWIY TFFO

NBN: The World is Yours* (Future Proof)

Agenda (10)

Asset (2)

Upgrade (3)

Operation (15)

Barrier (4)

Code Gate (6)

Sentry (1)

12 influence spent (max 12)
18 agenda points (between 18 and 19)
41 cards (min 40)
Cards up to Honor and Profit

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

Personally I think GLC is an all star in TWIY. It does an incredible job of padding RND and I think I’d struggle to play without economy beyond Hedge and Sweeps. This build is lighter on ICE than yours but I only find that a problem against Leela and during the occasional nightmare draw. GLC helps find more ICE. One could argue you could just play more ICE and drop GLC. It may be the better call; I should try the triple Biotic version. Just noticed you play the third Beale over my third NAPD; that’s likely better. I should dust off TWIY and play it more; haven’t in a couple months at least. I consider TWIY Fastro a more honest deck than the NEH seen at worlds. Slapping down this list is basically saying, Either you blow me out or I manage to squeak the win through. Almost all the games with this deck are very exciting and close. What I really mean to say is, it’s not as unfair as NEH FA, which taxes and races. TWIY Rush only races, but it’s pretty damn exhilarating, like tearing a yellow Lamborghini down the freeway to Mexico before the cops catch you.

I realize the 41 cards is very controversial. 44 is probably better. If anything I should play a third Jackson.


#4

NEH-AstroNastro V1.4

Near-Earth Hub: Broadcast Center (Upstalk)

Agenda (11)

Asset (8)

Upgrade (3)

Operation (13)

Barrier (5)

Code Gate (7)

Sentry (2)

17 influence spent (max 17)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to All That Remains

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

This is the list I am using. In my current meta Shipment from SanSan performs better than the standard Marked Accounts and the single Archived Memory lets you recycle the final Biotic, Fast Track or whatever has been imped or trashed.


#5

I am slightly worried about the can of worms I’m opening here, but I’m genuinely interested so I’ll be bold.

Is there a way to play this deck well? I get that it’s a good deck, but other than sleeving the cards and shuffling so you get an early astro + FA tool, how do you increase its winrate by playing well?

FWIW I think @mediohxcore’s suggestion of pup over architect is interesting but wrong. Architect makes Anarch super sad and everyone else sad. You can’t run through architect until it’s desparation time and you can’t make it go away. It’s busted.


#6

Let’s nail down exactly what are the “flex slots” in the deck. Here’s what I view as mandatory, or the “skeleton”:

11 agendas
3 jackson
3 PAD
2 DBS
3 sansan
3 hedge
3 sweeps
1 fast track
2 biotic **** ****

ICE: 12 to 15
3 eli * * *
2 wraparound
3 pop-up window
2 ETR code gates (enigma, quandary, tollbooth, lotus)
2 sentries

This leaves 3 to 6 non-ICE flex slots and 0 to 3 ICE flex slots. The major question is: is architect good enough at the top level of play to shave a biotic? Even if not, you still need to make the runner pay to install mimic instead of coasting through the whole game with faerie. Roto and guard are both reasonable, but if you don’t have any architects, I think 2 lotus is much better than 1 lotus 1 roto. Lotus is a pain in the ass in its own right, perhaps enough to offset the loss of gear checking for mimic. Grim sucks. In the end I think the answer is that architect gear checks for mimic so much more efficiently than anything else, and having 2+ DBS helps take the sting out of losing a biotic. Thus I think the optimal ICE is exactly what Dan posted above, or with -1 wraparound if you like 14 ice better than 15.

I also still think 1 or 2 marked accounts is good, even if you have the full 3 DBS. Some say that DBS counts as an econ card, but in this deck you’re also trying to use it to find biotics, astros, situational ice… don’t stretch it too thin. Even with just 1 marked I find myself clicking for credits more often than I’d like.


#7

I’ve been rocking the SHL2 with a list really similar to what Dan posted. The only difference is that I was playing 2 Wraparound and 2 Tollbooth instead of 3/1. Since a lot of Crim list ony play a single Inside Job and no emergency shutdown lately, having a Booth and econ early on means that either you condamn one central server for almost the entirety of the game, or score an astroscript and/or a beale behind.

I still think 3 Architect is the right number. As people said, it makes runner wary of running without their mimic and gives you tempo.

Another remarks I would add is that I feel a lot of NBN players forgot they don’t NEED to fast-advance all their agendas. Being able to score an astroscript or even a beale behind a double ICEd server (like Wraparound/Quandary, Popup/Tollbooth, Double Eli) is something invaluable and gives a way better tempo boost than a biotic => astro score.


#8

I’ve been happy with the following list, but it’s for a crim-heavy meta:

Near-Earth Hub: Broadcast Center (Upstalk)

Agenda (11)
3x AstroScript Pilot Program (Core Set)
2x Breaking News (Core Set)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Project Beale (Future Proof)

Asset (8)
3x Daily Business Show (All That Remains)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
2x PAD Campaign (Core Set)

Upgrade (3)
3x SanSan City Grid (Core Set)

Operation (12)
2x Biotic Labor (Core Set) ••••• •••
2x Fast Track (Honor and Profit)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
2x Shipment from SanSan (Second Thoughts)
3x Sweeps Week (True Colors)

Barrier (5)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof) •••
2x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing)

Code Gate (8)
2x Enigma (Core Set)
2x Lotus Field (Upstalk) ••
3x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus)
1x Tollbooth (Core Set)

Sentry (2)
2x Architect (Up and Over) ••••

17 influence spent (max 17)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to All That Remains

Lotus Field is still really good against Noise and Crim, and while Architect is still also very good people are respecting it more now which makes multiples not as good. I can see playing the third PAD instead of the third DBS, they perform similar roles.

In general I don’t like Marked Accounts, that second click to put credits on it is hard to find.
Shipment from SanSan is for a Syphon heavy meta and significantly increases scoring pressure on crim. It also messes with the runner expectations from your credit level, with it you are threatening Biotic scores at 5 credits instead of 7, and can score off a unrezzed SanSan at 6 credits (besides Astrochaining at 0 credits). For a deck running at low credit totals that’s been significant for me.


#9

For sure - knowing if you should rez a SanSan to score a Beale can be a real decision, and knowing if now’s the correct time to double biotic fast track (it usually is, but you may want a bit to rez ICE too). You’ll win a lot with the deck because it’s good, but you’ll win even more once you know some of the finer details.

I’ve been playing these two variants recently (retired RP temporarily in fear of stealth Andy) -

http://netrunner.meteor.com/decks/d4xcj4PHG4FKGE2gH/

http://netrunner.meteor.com/decks/97LP4MGB8EMYDZiPd/

Surprisingly, I liked the 3 biotic one before (I was expecting the reverse). I ground out a few games of the 2 biotic one on OCTGN and against good players sometimes I was just waiting for a biotic and agendas built up - something I never felt happened with the 3 biotic one.

The 3 biotic one I (maybe fallaciously) think is more consistent, and the ICE Suite is surprisingly fine - you can score even if they get in anyway, and Eli’s less good with Lady everywhere. That said, having two sentries does make me a bit uneasy.


#10

That’s fallacious. By doing so, you never plan to score in a remote and that’s one of the biggest mistakes average/bad astrobiotic players do. The Fast-advance is part of your gameplan but it’s a mean to help you win the game, not an end by itself. Most of the time, at least one if not two agendas are scored in a remote when I play Astrobiotic.

Seems like people forgot how to rush properly, these days.


#11

You can score in a remote too (with both decks) but a lot of the time it’s out of the question.

If anything, this ICE suite it better at scoring in a remote via gearchecking than the other one because no Eli.

I played GRNDL for a while and know how rushing works, but trying to force agendas out behind a remote is rarely correct (though it sometimes is).


#12

While I don’t like to say general statements about rushing agendas during the first 3-4 turns since they depend so much on actual gamestate, I think it’s often correct to install a early drawn Beale behind one ICE even if you suspect the runner has a breaker in hand. That Beale is not a key part of your plan and not worth wasting early fast-advance cards on, while likely running a high risk of capture in HQ.

Against Noise I would likely rush Astro behind a ICE as well, while it’s unlikely to be a good play against Shaper or Andromeda unlesss you got a really good read on their hand.


#13

I sneaked out an Astro pretending it was a PAD once. Everything went well until I suddenly started to laugh after the runner took his second click. Then I got sad, really sad.


#14

How it’s out of question ? A double ICEd remote with an agenda in it by turn 2 means that need to play 2 breakers to go through, which also means they need at least 2 clicks to play it, one click to run and probably one if not two clicks to fetch the right breaker. Eli + Quandary on a remote against criminal is deadly, Eli + Architect as well since you can trash the agenda inside of the remote with architect if they click through the Eli… There’s a lot of way to rush in remote with Astrobiotic and for some reasons, a lot of players are too afraid to do it. It’s the same kind of fallacy who made Inquest rate Necropotence 1 of 5 when the card cames out. Don’t be short-sighted and learn to take risks :<

@Ilza: Your gameplan is to score 7 pts of agenda to win the game, not chaining astro with Biotic/Sansan. Chaining astro is a means to your 7 points, not your main gameplan.


#15

This would require you drawing quandary and wraparound and agenda and spending 3 of your 6 clicks to set-up leaving 3 for protecting centrals and getting the money to rez ice. Seems very unlikely to me.

I agree there is occasion to score a agenda in a remote but these opportunities are far and few between against shaper and crim. Most of the time they have the tools they need to get in, smc, inside job, account spichon. Money and ice is tight as it is, an opening gambit like this can straight up lose you the game.


#16

I’ll rather leave the HQ or R&D open depending on the matchup if it would help me to score in a remote during the first few turns. And i’m gonna say those opportunities arise way more often than people are willing to accept. And it also begins by using Eli, Architect or Popup in the remote.


#17

Personally, I think the 3 Biotic version might actually be the more powerful one. It requires a fast and loose playstyle-- if you don’t get your FA online quickly you often have to try to sneak an agenda by naked, (which is something you should do every so often anyway), and it might not allow you to leverage play skill as much because it plays more like a pure combo deck. However, in testing I always found that 3 Biotics is the version I want to play against least, because it gives NEH the highest probability of getting those draws where the runner just can’t win.

If you’re playing against less than world-class players, I think the 2 Biotic version is usually preferable because it can play a longer, more taxing game, take advantage of scoring windows, and just play a generally stronger game in the cases where you aren’t just biotic-training them out quickly.


#18

@Calimsha I definitely agree that the face down remote potential is underplayed.

This deck secured me 1st seed (9/1) in the top 64 at Nationals at Gencon 2014. I think a big part of that was the amount of hard ETR ice in it allowed me to rush agendas in remotes when I identified windows, especially with a double stacked wraparound/lotus field server.

Celebrity Hubbub

Near-Earth Hub: Broadcast Center (Upstalk)

Agenda (11)
3x AstroScript Pilot Program (Core Set)
2x Breaking News (Core Set)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Project Beale (Future Proof)

Asset (8)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
2x Marked Accounts (Cyber Exodus)
3x PAD Campaign (Core Set)

Upgrade (3)
3x SanSan City Grid (Core Set)

Operation (12)
2x Biotic Labor (Core Set) ••••• •••
2x Celebrity Gift (Opening Moves)] ••••• •
2x Fast Track (Honor and Profit)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x Sweeps Week (True Colors)

Barrier (5)
1x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof)
1x TMI (What Lies Ahead)
3x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing)

Code Gate (7)
1x Enigma (Core Set)
2x Lotus Field i[/i]] ••
2x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus)
1x Quandary (Double Time)
1x Tollbooth (Core Set)

Sentry (2)
1x Data Raven (Core Set)
1x Guard (Honor and Profit)

Other (1)
1x Chimera (Cyber Exodus)

17 influence spent (max 17)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Upstalk

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

I ended up losing in elimination as runner against Benoit’s NEH but my corp deck was undefeated that day until I went to losers bracket and mulliganed from a hand of 4 agendas into a hand of 4 agendas and got siphoned to death. That said, NEH was relatively new then so it’s possible people were just blindsided by the ID.

There’s more on this deck here:
http://netrunnerdb.com/en/deck/view/115406

How is this relevant now? I’ve been playing this and some variants of it on OCTGN and it still seems very strong played card for card. That said, I took out the Marked Accounts for DBS and swapped the Chimera out and it seems better.

I haven’t played with Architect enough to properly rate it, I think I’ll try some builds with it this weekend to see how I like it.

I feel like runners are gearing more and more toward glacier these days with Bluesun and RP being popular so a lot of them seem too slow to properly deal with NEH.


#19

Stealth Andy IS too slow against Astrobiotic. Atm, PPvP Kate probably have the best matchup against NEH (my own statistics are way above 50%) without losing straight to slower matchup (like Gabe does), but it takes way more skills to play it properly than the average criminal deck.


#20

I was on the 3 Biotic Labor bandwagon until Architect came out, then I dropped down to 2 Biotics to fit in Architects. The current meta does seem to have gone back more heavily to Mimic since I last played AstroBiotics, so I’m not sure which of the two I would currently prefer.

The aggressive Desperado-led Leela decks that I’ve seen and played are ripping AstroBiotics decks to shreds across the board in my local area and my games online, I think they might give PPVP Kate a run for her money in the NEH match-up.