It’s important to note that this doesn’t factor in your skill as a pilot and/or the skills of random people you play against.
Having stats “way above 50%” is good and all but that’s you with the deck, not the deck itself and it’s important not to conflate the two. I’m sure a skilled pilot could get >50% as Noise despite it being a bad matchup for him (depending on Imp timings).
That’s why I said “without losing straight to slower matchup”. The Agressive Leela decks are poor against RP, HB Glacier and globally any decks playing for the long game.
Well, for what it’s worth, my Kate deck has been played by a lot of peoples here in France/Belgium and all feedbacks i’ve got tended to confirm my initial thought: It’s REALLY good against NEH without losing grounds against RP, Blue Sun, PE and ETF.
Even Sam’s version? That one seemed particularly fine when I tested - you can pretty much play a standard Andy when needed, the components are there.
I dunno, man - mine seems fine in those matchups. Sure, I need to be a bit more thoughtful when considering mulligans (due to the loss of Lucky Finds), but the increased RnD dig feels like it compensates particularly well.
The one with Medium is good against NEH but then again, it loses too much ground on other matchups. The version with RDI instead aren’t that great. In fact, I think RDI is probably a bad card to field against NEH. Indexing / Legwork / Medium is what makes you win the NEH Matchup, not RDI.
I’m one of those players and I can confirm. Ofc you have to learn how to play with it (and i must admit that talking with Calimsha on this subject helped me a lot) but i’m not an amazingly skilled player. The deck is strong against NEH and has his chances against pretty much any decks on the field atm (excluding those who play Susanoo and Changeling x2/3).
For what its worth my win rate against NEH is 60% over the last 20 games with Andy, which also has a good glacier match-up. I only record competitive games such as live tournaments and Stimhack lge. As a side note my win rate with NEH over the last 33 games(Dec/Jan) is 64%. This down from from 76% the previous 29 games(Oct/Nov). I think the the strength of NEH is not what it was. Has anyone else also experienced a NEH slide in winrate?
In my opinion, it’s still the strongest corp deck in the field but also the hardest to play well. It’s probably harder to learn how to play RP but it’s easier to be (really) good with RP. The skill-ceiling to play NEH well is way way higher than any other corp deck atm. And reading this thread tend to confirm what I think.
Disagree with this. I’ve seen lots of average players have sudden improved success when they start playing NEH. This is not true of RP, those ‘free wins’ you get with NEH are massive.
Do you keep records? What has been your NEH win rate in the Stimhack lge?
Indeed looking forward to this. I’d be willing to wager NEH win rates have had a significant drop the last two months, when two skilled players meet.
That’s exactly what i’ve been saying. It’s harder to learn RP (and easier with NEH) but it’s waaaaaaay harder to be really good with NEH than being really good with RP. The difference between having 60% win ratio with NEH and 70% is harder to achieve than the same with RP By a really long shot.
I think at high skill level NEH has more mind gamey-ness than RP, making it easier to leverage super high skill, but it’s also more variance prone against players who are worse than you. Once you get the idea of how to play RP it can be relatively straightforward, but there are still little things the vast majority of players could do to increase their win rates by little bits. Basically, though, I agree somewhat with @Calimsha, that playing NEH near perfectly is harder than playing RP nearly perfectly, despite the fact that learning to play RP serviceably well is harder than learning to do the same with NEH.
The win rates with his Kate deck against NEH are maybe a little conflated IMO though. I feel like Kate has MAYBE 50% while stealth andy has around 40%. It’s definitely a contender for the best deck out there; it has pretty solid matchups across the board, but if you have a good read on what the meta is like there is often a better choice to make considering you can get much higher than 50% against any given non NEH deck if you choose your deck correctly, and if everyone is playing NEH you can just play minhs deck and get a higher win rate than you would with Kate.
My kate deck has been defeated 26 times by the entire corps field. 7 times by Astrobiotic. I’ve won 52 games against a random field of corp, 16 of those games were against NEH. So all around 66.7% win ratio, and 69.5% win ratio against Astrobiotic.
My corp win ratio is approximatively the same but i’ve played more corp decks during the league when I was playing (almost) exclusively Kate as my runner deck.
[edit] At second read, on my losses against NEH, I think at least 3 of them were against some Non-Biotic NEH (once against GumOnShoes deck, twice against some Dedicated Response Team deck). All my wins were against astrobiotic. So my win ratio against Astrobiotic should be at 80% during the SHL League.
What @Calimsha was saying earlier in the thread about scoring an agenda the old fashioned way (behind ICE) in Fastrobiotics CANNOT be understated. I think myself quite good with the deck, and I would say I probably score an agenda that way in 50-60% of games I play. I am well known for leaving R&D undefended, or lightly defended (how about that Ichi 1.0 on R&D @hhooo and @Basoon?) so that I can setup an enigma wraparound server to score my first Astro in. It is very important, and a huge mark of a “better” NEH player, IMO.
I think one of my greatest achievement lately with NEH was scoring a 5 pts Beale for the win in a four ICE deep remote against a Quetzal who installed a Chakana turn 1 and run 3 time my R&D. I never purged the virus since he installed 2 Fester next turn and still won without fast-advancing anything.
Here is a question for more experienced players: what do you do abot NEH’s asset economy? It’s really a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. With their card draw, they are probably throwing out assets that would cost, on average, 30 credits to trash, and even if you did so they can probably expect to get at least 20 credits from Hedge and Sweeps which is all they need to win anyways.
DBS, no question, trash on sight
If you can cripple NEH early in the game, you have a shot at winning. So go for those PADS. If they already have 2-3 ICE deep rezzed servers, yeah, why bother. But it depends on your matchup, playstyle and board state. But most of the time the answer is trash imo, if you are not crippling yourself and just straight out lose the game. It’s ok not to be able to pay for NAPD once or twice, they don’t want to score them either
I rarely trash PAD, never trash Marked, always trash DBS.
Trash PAD only when they’re poor, you’re rich, and it’s early. Trash Marked almost never.
My list running zu and medium definitely had a really good matchup against NEH, but the major issue with it was breaking lotus field and merlin with zu sucks (mostly a glacier matchup issue).
My win against you was with grail NEH, not astrobiotics, so at least 4.
More on topic, I find architects are beastly in the noise matchup, which isn’t great without architect or at least 2x lotus field. Sure, he has mimic in faction, but he’s probably only running 1, and even then 3 to install and 2 each run is really annoying for noise.