Help needed with my take on Quetzal, virus Quetzal

Amyr_Lozober · February 10, 2015, 7:04pm

Since everyone are talking about the latest stuff like the new IDs, i thought of a deck that seems to be full of sinergy but i cant cut it to 45.
The idea is that Quetzal loves E3, and what works best with E3? David and 2c break Icebreakers.
Since everyone is trying Eater+Cutlery as a way to deal with ice, I think Darwin would be a great way to AI and be able to deal with remotes.
E3, David, Darwin : Quetzal and David with E3 means i can really easily deal with Ice with 5+Str and Darwin seems to be a really cheap way to deal with low Str ice (since everything with more than 5 is David realm) as long as E3 in online.

You might think that Darwin is really bad after a purge because it takes a long time to recover but since Quetzal can break barriers and the deck obviously will have cutlery+parasites(because why the hell not) i think the ability can handle a turn or two of Darwin down time.

Whats new that REALLY helps Darwin is Virus Breeding Ground: having 1-3 on the board means even after a purge i can use clicks to get counters on Darwin and STILL be able to threaten a run. (remember that we normally will need less than 5 str).

Since Im playing with VBG then Medium and Nerve Agent become amazing:
Run once to get a counter, if the opp dont purge add 3 counters on medium and check 5 cards, if they do you got a timewalk and run again.

The point of the deck is make the corp want to purge because if they dont u will make big HQ/R&D runs.
Since i am running VBG AS is out of the question, Kati might be a good way to make money because after set up i have no problem slowing down(passing a turn is actualy good for me because VBG and Darwin get better), cutlery and parasites are a must since trashing Ice is really good.
1xMimic for Architect/Swordsman/Komainu for safety
Im not sure if i really need a code breaker since Darwin takes at worst case 2 turns to break most code gates after a purge.

Since i am not running Maxx i ofc need to add draw power to the deck but i hvnt done a deck in a long time and not sure how much draw/economy is normally needed. Could u guys help me with this least, what to cut/add?

New Runner Deck

Quetzal: Free Spirit (First Contact)

Event (19)
2x Day Job (Order and Chaos)
3x Déjà Vu (Core Set)
1x Forked (Order and Chaos)
3x I’ve Had Worse (Order and Chaos)
3x Inject (Up and Over)
1x Knifed (Order and Chaos)
2x Planned Assault (Honor and Profit)[color=#4169E1] ••••[/color]
1x Spooned (Order and Chaos)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)

Hardware (3)
3x e3 Feedback Implants (Trace Amount)[color=#4169E1] ••••• •[/color]

Resource (12)
2x Earthrise Hotel (The Source)
2x Kati Jones (Humanity’s Shadow)
3x Liberated Account (Trace Amount)
2x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)
3x Virus Breeding Ground (Order and Chaos)

Icebreaker (4)
3x Darwin (Future Proof)
1x Mimic (Core Set)

Program (9)
3x D4v1d (The Spaces Between)
2x Medium (Core Set)
1x Nerve Agent (Cyber Exodus)
3x Parasite (Core Set)

10 influence spent (max 15)
47 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Order and Chaos

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

RotomAppliance · February 10, 2015, 8:22pm

I think you have enough money in the deck and plenty of card draw, possibly even a tad too much. As a simple cut, you could take out the Earthrises to make it a 45 card deck.

Datasucker seems like a strange omission, any reason for that? It’s a good card, Almost all anarch decks want 2-3. Imp is also a shame to miss out on when its costing no influence.

Have you playtested, and if so, do you have MU problems? I would be running a console here.

You want to be using all 15 of your influence. If you’re worried about consistency, SMC can help, and clone chip is an excellent card for anarchs, allowing for instant speed parasites and potentially re-using an SMC to tutor something from your deck. I assume you’re using planned assault to summon up whatever cutlery event you need for the situation, but it seems like a weaker use influence, and expensive too. But even if keeping those, you could have 1 SMC 1 Clone chip.

I haven’t tested Virus Breeding Ground yet, but it seems very click intensive. I get the worry about having Darwin purged, but I don’t think this is a good answer. (I think the real answer depends on gatestate, but some combination of parasites, datasucking archives, having a mimic, having Quetzals ability).

If having trouble trimming decksize, I think you could lose the 3rd copy of David. If running SMC, you could afford to trim a few more of the extra copies of programs. Good luck.

moistloaf · February 10, 2015, 8:28pm

My first impression is that you are light on economy. The first cuts I see are Earthrise; just rely on Inject and IHW for draw and face the fact that sometimes you will have to default draw.

Have you considered Cyberfeeder? They can help install Medium/Parasite/Nerve Agent, and help mitigate the cost to feed Darwin. They also pay for icebreakers. Seems possible here, but it does lose you some tempo.

I think the Cutlery stuff is what is making this list difficult to work with. It’s not necessarily bad, but it takes up deck slots that might be better as economy. Day Job seems better here than in some other lists since moneying up while VBG and Darwin collect tokens isn’t terrible.

Here is a list I just threw together, starting with yours and tweaking it to my own preference. With Parasite + VBG + recursion, I’m not sure that the Cuterly suite is necessary. Keep in mind you can dump off VBG onto a Parasite to kill big ICE quickly.

###[Quetzal VBG][1] (45 cards)

[Quetzal: Free Spirit][2]

Event (14)

2 [Day Job][3]
1 [Deja Vu][4]
3 [Inject][5]
3 [I’ve Had Worse][6]
3 [Sure Gamble][7]
2 [Surge][8]

Hardware (8)

3 [Clone Chip][9] ••••• •
3 [E3 Feedback Implants][10] ••••• •
2 [Vigil][11]

Resource (10)

2 [Daily Casts][12]
2 [Kati Jones][13]
2 [Liberated Account][14]
1 [Same Old Thing][15]
3 [Virus Breeding Ground][16]

Icebreaker (4)

3 [Darwin][17]
1 [Mimic][18]

Program (9)

3 [D4v1d][19]
2 [Medium][20]
1 [Nerve Agent][21]
3 [Parasite][22]

I hope I’m not intruding by posting another list. In short, I think your original list was economy light and wasted slots on the Cutlery tricks. this list still has 3 inf to give, and is more general purpose I think. Unfortunately you can’t Surge something after you move tokens via VBG, but you can always Surge Darwin and you can Surge your multi-access after a run. you could cut 1 D4vid since there are 3 Clone Chips. the 3 Clone Chip could become 3 SMC and you could cut 1 or 2 Darwins.

RotomAppliance · February 10, 2015, 8:35pm

Ah yeah. Daily Casts is good, even if it means cutting slots on the other economy cards.

Razalhague · February 10, 2015, 9:04pm

Daily Casts is a very good fit for this deck as it seems very click intensive as it is.

I think you’ll want program tutors. With only three Darwins and no tutor for it there will be some games that you lose just because you didn’t see it soon enough. A tutor would also allow you to fetch the Mimic when you need it. SMC would allow you to get other stuff besides icebreakers, but Special Order works better with Inject. Also, you might run into situations where SMC’s memory requirement would be a problem.

Amyr_Lozober · February 10, 2015, 9:17pm

Yes i know the deck isnt finished, i just posted the deck before finishing because i wasnt sure about what to add and wanted to here impressions.

About Darwin+VBG/Medium+VBG= Darwin with E3 is a REALLY CHEAP BREAKER paying 1 more than the number of subs is really good. The problem is without VBG it takes a really long time to load it and it becomes prone to purge. with VBG, if the corp purges you can pay clicks to load it to 2-4+ do something else and the state of the board is almost the same as before the purge! (we need Darwin for almost always low str ice).
The same with medium/agent+VBG it is really inexpensive to load medium to 4-5 counters and check 5 cards, instead of running 4 times and spending money on ice VBG lets you put a counter, that means that those “click intensive” is like geting 2-5 money(average of running cost on RnD and HQ).

My problem with adding SMC is the nonbo with Inject, was thinking of adding special order but not sure.

The reason i dont like datasucker is that im not sure its worth the card, since darwin already gets high str easily datasucker doesnt give me money like the other decks AND it gets purged at the same time its needed the most.

I wanted to have enough virus counters to get a purge but not enought so i would destroy too much of my stuff doing it.
Imp+darwin demands a purge imediatly when i put imp so it would be inefective.

Fry · February 10, 2015, 9:28pm

trollface

Progenitor doubles as both MU and helps Darwin get back online faster after a purge. And if you’ve got that, you might want to try Hivemind (Hivemind on Progenitor with Breeding Ground can be silly!)

RotomAppliance · February 10, 2015, 9:55pm

This doesn’t seem always true? Any deck playing alot of viruses with counters has to play around purge and not just offer the corp easy moments to do it. I don’t know why imp in particular is a bad case, especially if you use a token immediately.

If I count right the deck moistloaf put forward only has one more economy card compared to the original, so it might be he’s just saying play Daily casts. Which is a pretty good idea.

Amyr_Lozober · February 10, 2015, 10:06pm

@Fry: I really dont think i have MU problems with this deck: Darwin+Medium/Agent+Mimic(if needed)+Parasite/David is the rig you would have most of the game.

@RotomAppliance: The thing is that the deck isnt REALLY playing a lot of virii Imp and Sucker would greatly up the virus count yes but at that point a purge really gives me problems. though if i only have Darwin +Medium/Parasite i can get where i was in the next 1-2 turns.
The goal of the deck is that is to have a way that even with a purge i can fastly go back where i was:
Darwin without purge is a beast, but if the corp purged and in 1-2 turns i get back where i was im okay with the corp purging all the time since i have more clicks than the corp per turn.
Medium without purge is a beast without VBG but if the corp dont purge, i can pay 4 clicks to see 4 new cards, if they do, i can run once and get money being able to have the same dilemma next turn.

BTW Imp is kind of a 1-2 turn virus only, im not sure its really that useful to add the deck a 1 time virus just to trash a card. And i think Fester is bad card right, am i right? These days runner decks dont hv many slots…
Is it just me or Djin seems like a really good idea? Getting medium/agent AND my breaker AND parasite makes it a special order in faction(almost an SMC), what do u guys think?

The cutlery you can basically see as really good economy cards, since imagine an event that says get 4 money each turn, thats kinda what trashing an Eli means.

The breaking point is having enough virus counters to make the corp need to purge but not that many virus so u cant aquire them again easily.

ericbtool · February 10, 2015, 10:45pm

I’m going to second the commentary on the cutlery. Blowing up ICE isn’t that big a deal outside of parasite. In fact with the approach you’re taking the bigger and scarier the ICE the better it is for you. What really sucks is when you’re facing multiple cheap ICE that just taxes the hell out of Darwin.

The primary issue with Darwin + Davids is that your accesses are more limited, so finding ways to make them count for more is important.

I am working (as in gaining practical experience) on a deck that features the basic tennents of what you are attempting to accomplish. I believe I’m on the 3rd iteration of it, still not sure of it’s validity when it’s all said and done but I’m enjoying the play thus-far. I had actually jettisoned parasite to save deckspace but was swiftly punished for my hubris (haha), so they’re back in.

I’ll present it as something you can bounce your own thoughts off of.

Great Green Whale 7FEB15 - OnC

Quetzal: Free Spirit (First Contact)

Event (19)
3x Day Job (Order and Chaos)
3x Déjà Vu (Core Set)
3x I’ve Had Worse (Order and Chaos)
3x Lucky Find (Double Time) ••••• •
2x Showing Off (Order and Chaos)
1x Stimhack (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)
1x Surge (Humanity’s Shadow)

Hardware (3)
2x e3 Feedback Implants (Trace Amount) ••••
1x MemStrips (Order and Chaos)

Resource (8)
3x Daily Casts (Creation and Control)
2x Earthrise Hotel (The Source)
1x Utopia Shard (All That Remains) •[/color]
2x Virus Breeding Ground (Order and Chaos)

Icebreaker (3)
1x Darwin (Future Proof)
2x Mimic (Core Set)

Program (13)
3x D4v1d (The Spaces Between)
3x Djinn (Core Set)
1x Incubator (The Source)
2x Magnum Opus (Core Set) ••••
1x Medium (Core Set)
1x Nerve Agent (Cyber Exodus)
2x Parasite (Core Set)

15 influence spent (max 15)
46 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Order and Chaos

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

I’m trying to get by with just 2 E3’s but that dream may swiftly die as well as it is so crucial.

Showing off is there because I want to try it.

The main issue I’ve had so far in trials is finding enough clicks to pound someone with a big medium dig followed by showing off. This is how magnum opus got slotted in (in place of Kati). I had zero memory issues before and now inserted the one memstrip just in case i need it. I have not played with this version yet.

I went to 2 VBG’s because one was often enough.

Went from 3 to 2 earthrise as mid to late game they were dead draws.

I really believe in having at least one surge and one stimhack. With the darwin+david setup surge functions as a pseudo-stimhack, allowing you to create the illusion of a scoring window where there really isn’t one. Stimhack is Stimhack.

I hope you get your deck to where you like it. Have fun!

Amyr_Lozober · February 10, 2015, 11:06pm

I would really suggest using cutlery since Quetzal/David+E3 is the BEST set up for cutlery, geting any scary ice out of the board for 3credits more or less is the dream! I agree that David is scarce thats what the cutlery is for.
About VBG i would suggest -Surge +VBG you really want VBG asap and more than 1 are welcome since it makes you able to recover from purge easily.
Showing Off seems a bit useless, isnt a 5 RnD run good enough? try doing this with medium/agent:
Run one time to get a counter and do something else, does the corp purge? If So, u spent 1 click to get 4. If the corp doesnt purge you can simply VBGx3 on your turn and run, seeing 5 cards(1+3+1 from the run). The corp probably will need to purge now or you will keep doing that.

BTW, why no inject?

Testing the current version:

Quetzal Darwin+VBG

Quetzal: Free Spirit (First Contact)

Event (19)
3x Day Job (Order and Chaos)
3x Déjà Vu (Core Set)
1x Forked (Order and Chaos)
3x I’ve Had Worse (Order and Chaos)
3x Inject (Up and Over)
1x Knifed (Order and Chaos)
1x Lucky Find (Double Time)[color=#708090] ••[/color]
1x Spooned (Order and Chaos)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)

Hardware (5)
2x Clone Chip (Creation and Control)[color=#32CD32] ••••[/color]
3x e3 Feedback Implants (Trace Amount)[color=#4169E1] ••••• •[/color]

Resource (9)
2x Kati Jones (Humanity’s Shadow)
2x Liberated Account (Trace Amount)
2x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)
3x Virus Breeding Ground (Order and Chaos)

Icebreaker (3)
2x Darwin (Future Proof)
1x Mimic (Core Set)

Program (11)
3x D4v1d (The Spaces Between)
2x Djinn (Core Set)
1x Medium (Core Set)
1x Nerve Agent (Cyber Exodus)
3x Parasite (Core Set)
1x Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control)[color=#32CD32] •••[/color]

15 influence spent (max 15)
47 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Order and Chaos

Decklist published on NetrunnerDB.

ericbtool · February 11, 2015, 2:55am

I do not wish to use inject because what recursion i have is meant for recovering incubators, davids, and lost darwins. More so since I’ve cut the clone chips out.

I have not experienced a situation yet where I wished I had any of the cutlery.

Amyr_Lozober · February 11, 2015, 2:58am

Update on the deck above…feeling poor as hell…