Crims would like to use consoles other than Desperado but they’re all specialized and/or blow
2 Likes
It is a very elegant solution to overpowered but not broken cards like Eli 1.0 or Architect. I’m surprised at how good it has been in that regard, actually.
However, it’s limited. It cannot deal with cards that are broken. Adding one influence to Mumbad City Hall won’t make it any more palatable.
8 Likes
I’m glad that you mentioned Xwing, because it seems to be on the completely opposite of Netrunner when it comes to fixing issues in the game.
I have started to play it only recently, but I’m positively shocked with how fast is Xwing fixing issues.
Card erratas, rule changes, tournament fixes, new core set - nothing is sacred or untouchable in Xwing.
While that approach might seems a bit chaotic at times, it is a breeze of fresh air, compared to the glacial speed of Netrunner fixes.
Seems like a no brainer that Netrunner should adapt multiple balancing tools and speed up the fixing process. But apparently people running it are very reluctant to this. I hope their approach would change, as the long term health of the game is already suffering because of it.
4 Likes
Agreed. As a long time X-Wing player I do like that issues are occasionally addressed… aside from X-Wing’s themselves being a truly competitive ship and the release schedule for the game being far too slow for my competitive tastes.
I guess given the choice between X-Wing’s long release times, but timely FAQ/Errata/Updates vs Netrunner’s monthly release schedule, but annually/bi-annual faq/errata/mwl updates I would still choose Netrunner. 6-8 months without new releases makes for an incredibly stagnant meta.
Yeah, the MWL wasn’t really an adequate solution. I think it worked well for keeping Haas in check, but there are no other good benefits.
A small ban list would help
Pancakes
Faust
Parasite
Museum
MCH
Near Earth Hub
MWL could be kept for Yog.0, Eli, Architect, Clone Chip, Lady, Mimic
Remove all restrictions from Astroscript. Maybe make SanSan one per deck.
It’s not a great solution, but better than the current solution. Mixing various types of solutions is probably the best way to work it, rather than pigeonholing yourself into one solution.
No need for a ban list. Just bring rotation forward a year and do a better job at balancing/playtesting the game. Unfortunately Mumbad cycle proved that the people designing/testing are not doing a very good job.
3 Likes
I don’t think bringing rotation forward helps with anything, because the problem cards are either from the Core Set/deluxes (and therefore evergreen) or in the most recent cycles. Rotating out the old Genesis/Spin cycles won’t fix much, unfortunately.
2 Likes
I’m looking forward to rotation and would like to see it accelerated in general, but I think you’re right. Whizzard would be gone and, I fear, that would mean asset spam decks would be bumped up even higher in power.
I think the Runner side gets the worst deal when rotation hits. I mean the variety of decks. So many “tier 2” cards would get rotated out. Not to mention Andromeda and Chaos Theory, which are both very versatile IDs, not pre-defined to an archetype by their abilities.
3 Likes
Even the interim step of a restricted list would be nice - not a flat ban, but say D4V1D, Faust and Wyldside were all on a restricted list. Or even D4V1D and Faust. You can pick one. You still get a strong card as printed, but have to make careful decisions about which ‘power card’ you bring along, and make do with the nice Tier-2 Cards you’d otherwise ignore for the rest.
2 Likes
There are 4 levels of non-errata, strictly deckbuilding restrictions I can think of. From most to least severe:
Ban
Restricted pairs
Limit 1 per deck
Added influence (current MWL)
I wouldn’t be surprised if FFG started exploring the more severe ones considering the outcome of the MWL. Personally, I like the restricted pair approach since most of the problem cards require enabling support to go from great to broken. As a first pass, this is what I would do if I were Damon:
Ban
none
Restricted:
SanSan/Astro
Faust/Chronotype
Parasite/Datasucker
Limit 1 per deck
Museum
Mumbad City Hall (though with the MoH nerf this card might be fine)
PPVP
NAPD Contract
Influence
Lady
Clone Chip
Yog.0
D4V1D
Architect
Eli
If Museum is a 1-per, it can’t recur itself which is the main NPE problem with the card. You can still get it back with Jackson/Interns/Vitruvius/etc. but those are all resources the corp must find and expend, which gives the runner a chance to disrupt. Astro/SanSan might be harsh, but it would give NEH back the influence to run a full Butchershop package, it just defangs the fast advance threat a bit. I’m guessing a lot of people will disagree with the parasucker restriction, but IMO that combo has been broken since day 1. Use Datasucker as an econ card/fixed breaker enabler, or use Parasite as a slow burn ICE destruction card, but not both.
Desperado shouldn’t have been on the list in the first place since there’s no good alternative. They should just print a good Crim console or errata it to once per turn.
10 Likes
I think one problem with MWL is that overall influence totals go down. This takes some of the “customizable” out of customizable card game and replaces reactive meta balance with rock paper scissors and pray balance. Reduced influence means reduced ability to play E. Mills out of faction in ETF to try to deal with Wyldside that way, and instead pushes you towards playing NEH and praying the overall deck quality outraces or playing Op Econ Palana and hoping you face scrubbers/whizz.
It’d be better if playing an MWL card gave your opponent +1 influence instead of giving yourself -1 influence. But that would require customizing your deck at the point of play and additional knowledge about opponents’ decklists, something I wouldn’t mind at all but a lot of people don’t like.
You’re bringing 3 Elis? Cool I made my Andy deck flexible enough to bring in Blackkat. You have a full three Parasites? I’ll cut restructures for Lotus Fields to ensure this game isn’t just a charade.
5 Likes
I strongly believe the game has reached a point where it needs banned and restricted lists. The MWL was a start but isn’t enough to correct the balance problems.
We’re at a point where people are inventing new game formats to make it fun again because the designers aren’t fixing the problems and are instead introducing new ones. I’m really crossing my fingers about the next MWL update doing something meaningful because I really love Netrunner and think the course can be corrected with the right interventions.
7 Likes
in response to hbarsquared: love this so much
I probably wouldn’t play Desperado if it were once per turn. That’s a Net Celebrity, which as we all know has never been played.
4 Likes
Desperado isn’t trashed whenever the corporation scores a 15 minutes, errata’ed or not. It also gives MU. I’m not 100% sure it’d continue to see play but it would be way ahead of Net Celebrity, which is an Easy Mark with a tough condition to make sure it stays an Easy Mark, not a Data Folding that gives you 1 MU.
2 Likes
Big difference between a recurring credit and a real one. Net Celebrity gives no benefit on low-effort runs like Dirty Laundry on naked Archives. Personally, I’d rather they make better Crim consoles to give Desperado some competition. I want to see a 5-inf god-tier blue console that makes other factions weep in jealousy, but instead we get Box-E and Reflection.
6 Likes
Oh c’mon, Net Celebrity’s issue isn’t its Currency. My analogy was definitely crude but my point is, Desperado would be underpowered if limited, IMO.
I definitely want to see more interesting and power designs for consoles in general. Turntable and Maya are examples of good console design, IMO. I don’t want more strictly economic consoles.
1 Like
A couple things about this proposal. I think in a lot of cases 1x is more restrictive than restricted combos (I’d rather play 3 Astros no sansan than 1 astro). Limit 1 astro seems like far and away the cleanest solution for the astro problem (massive power level of scoring it in fa deck).
Datasucker parasite restriction is pretty stupid IMO and really hurts anarch. Restricting parasite / clone chip (which I still think is a good part of the game) is way better.
Restricting Faust / chronotype is good but Faust / wyldsides is way cleaner. Also ignores that worlds was won with Faust and no wyldpancakes, and Faust is just a massively strong card that should be mwl anyway.
David is a horrible anarch target because it’s a fundamental card for fair anarch decks (fixed strength breakers no ai) and these decks already are massively tight on influence. It’s a nice card for Faust / eater anarch but less essential and they have way fewer influence problems anyway. David is a pretty common card states as potential mwl (and has a decent chance to go on) but would be a disaster to go on (it would further enforce only ever seeing ai based anarch decks which I think is problematic for the game. (Yog should also probably come off).
Napd and prepaid seem bizarre as 1x restriction. Why?
8 Likes
Personally, I much prefer bans to limit 1 per deck restrictions. I don’t like the variance, and it doesn’t solve the auto-include issue. As it is though Astro seems like the only real problem card that can’t be adequately reigned in by the MWL, however it looks with cards like Merger as though they’re balancing the game for post rotation, which could be enough to do it alongside the MWL.
2 Likes