I think it is a valid point. From my point of view an entry in the log such card was mixed to hand like Archive (15) would solve it.
These are interesting ideas but might be hard to implement currently. How exactly would you want it to look? Any sort of mock-up would be appreciated cuz I can’t quite envision how I’d make it work.
ok, I try from my point of view, currently it looks like this:
player1 discards a card from their HQ. player1 discards a card from their HQ. player1 moves a card from their Archives to HQ. player1 moves a card from their Archives to HQ.
for the move from HQ this is totally fine, as it should not be clear which card it is. But moving them back to HQ is telling you nothing.
What would be perfect:
player1 discards a card from their HQ. player1 discards a card from their HQ. player1 moves card (5) from their Archives to HQ. player1 moves card (3) from their Archives to HQ.
The question is still how they are numbered, but assuming (1) is the card on top should work.
Does it answer your question Noah?
Yes it does! Thanks for that, I’ll experiment a bit and see if I can whip something up!
That’s also relevant for stuff as Archives Memory.
The top of Archives is a facedown card. You access a HHN from HQ, and later got the Corp to trash something from HQ facedown that you suspect is the HHN. The Corp then plays Archives Memory to take one of the top two cards from Archives. You might want to know whether that’s the HHN or the older card.
Thanks for the end of turn trash btw, that’s dope.
i believe that archives is allowed to be shuffled, so long as the orientation of faceup or -down cards is preserved
I believe that you are incorrect. It’s the heap that is unordered. I could not find this information in the comprehensive rules of Nisei though.
If that were true however, we would still need the Jnet implementation to be modified because right now, most of the time, we know when was trashed the card retrieved by Archives Memory.
E.g., Corp trashes a card face down; later plays Hedge Fund; later trashes a card face down; plays Archives Memory to retrieve the first trashed card. Then we know that it’s the first trashed card that was retrieved.
From the current NISEI rules v1.1:
a. ARCHIVES is the name for the Corp’s discard pile. It is also one of the Corp’s central
4.5.2. Discard piles are not ordered. A player may freely arrange the cards in their discard pile
in any order at any time
So should Jnet put all facedown cards together, so that it is unknown which card leaves Archives?
Yeah, I think that’s what I’ll do now that I know this rule. Make two piles of cards in Archives: 1 of all face-up cards and 1 of all face-down cards.
Thanks for sparking this discussion!
Question for everyone:
Currently, we have a “Star of turn effects” period we call in the engine
:runner-phase-12, which are for the ability/rez/score windows that happen after the player receives their clicks and for triggering any “When your turn begins” effects. However, this is much more manual than it needs to be, and in a PR I just pushed up, I’ve made Rashida Jaheem and Marilyn Campaign better respect the actual rules, which is that unless you fire them manually, they don’t fire until we’ve hit
:corp-turn-begins (1.4) and if they’re both rezzed you can choose which ability to fire first.
My question is: should we extend this functionality to all of the other “Start of Turn” effects? It would be slightly more cumbersome to click through and say, “No thanks, no thanks, no thanks” if you want to wait, but I think it’s better than having to remember which cards you’re allowed to fire and which you’re not, and it makes for ordering effects much simpler.
What do you all think?
That seems good, but all this talk about start of turn triggers has made be think again about the “end of turn” problem, specifically that because of “each turn” triggers (Hayley, DBS, Tech Trader, etc…) its in your interest to want to trigger something on the opponent’s turn but at the end of it. Unfortunately, with JNet as is, this can often be really difficult. Usually people just work around it, but in a few cases (Councilman springs to mind) this can be impossible.
I think one solution is that before you click “start of turn”, you also have an option to click “end opponent’s turn”.
e.g. corp advances 3 times and scores, then clicks end of turn. Control passes to the runner, who has an option to use paid abilities before clicking “end opponent’s turn” themself. They then get the option to do their own paid abilities before their start of turn triggers start. They can then click “start of turn” and the game proceeds as usual.
This does have the downside of adding an extra button you have to click each turn, but I think its worth it for the increased precision.
What about making the “Start Turn” do this for you? Until you click “Start Turn”, it doesn’t change the turn over to you and you can perform any number of “on your opponent’s turn” actions you want, like normal. This is technically incorrect RAW, as Runner 2.2 has the rez/ability window and Runner’s End of Turn discard and abilities trigger on Runner 2.3 and 2.4 respectively, but it otherwise feels like a reasonably easy fix.
If your opponent’s turn continued until you click “start turn,” then the Corp wouldn’t have a usable rez window before their turn starts when Interdiction is in play.
Good point. Without adding additional/unnecessary clicks, I’ll have to think about how to accomplish this.
Generally, I think doing more automation is good. Thanks for doing this and the outreach to the community for feedback.
Not sure it would help, but would it make sense to have a button that says ‘‘Action before mandatory draw’’ similar to ‘‘Action before run is successful’’ ?
Could you have two buttons: ‘‘start of turn’’, ‘‘take action after start of turn’’ ? Maybe that’s too confusing.
Announcement: With our next update, TheBigBoy’s format Classic will be available to all!
Included are a number of bug fixes and some solid work for refining how we handle events and operations, which will see real progress made in coming updates.
Just out of curiosity–what resources does it take to run JNet in production?
I’m not sure how many people have had this exact need, but I had someone over last night trying to learn the game, and my goal was to give him an overview of the cards, archetypes, and concepts in Kitara and R&R, by faction. By far the easiest way that I could find to do this was by using the “Cards” tab on jnet. Thanks for including it!