My humble thoughts on Quetzal, and why I don't think she will be very good(Please prove me wrong)

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Not that I disagree with this, but I’m curious. How many cards should a Noise player blindly mill before making a run on archives? Milling 3 and then checking is like a Maker’s Eye run isn’t it? Except that you’ve gained programs out of it. Isn’t milling a single card and then checking it the equivalent of a free run on R&D? I guess the difference is that the corp is no longer drawing the one R&D card you looked at, so you don’t have that soft* R&D lock. And by blindly milling you’re potentially getting rid of cards that corp wouldn’t want to have drawn.

Anyways, as to Quetzal. I think she and all the other “quiet” Anarchs (i.e. not Noise) are waiting for Order & Chaos to get some not virus toys to impact the game (I’m lookin’ at you Wanton Destruction). I mean what do the have that forces the corp to try and keep them out? Keyhole, DLR, Demolition Run (if they’ve got multi-access). Not a lot of threats. Noise’s inherent ability means he can selectively mill R&D cards he doesn’t like. And he’s got Medium, Nerve Agent, Imp, Datasucker, Hemorrhage. It’s not that the quiet Anarchs can’t use these cards; it’s that Noise just uses them better.

Based on watching the first three Quetzal test games:

Does Inject justify considering Retrieval Run? An argument could be made that DLR already threatens Archives, but Retrieval turns that threat on faster and could spread the ice just a little bit thinner. And of course, thinner is better where Knight and Quetzal are concerned.

Great for breakers, reduces face-check fear, and improves tempo. Terrible for virus recursion and far less reliable than Deja Vu. I’ll have to test it and report back.

[quote=“erinrockabitch, post:44, topic:1907”]
Not that I disagree with this, but I’m curious. How many cards should a Noise player blindly mill before making a run on archives? Milling 3 and then checking is like a Maker’s Eye run isn’t it? Except that you’ve gained programs out of it. Isn’t milling a single card and then checking it the equivalent of a free run on R&D? I guess the difference is that the corp is no longer drawing the one R&D card you looked at, so you don’t have that soft* R&D lock. And by blindly milling you’re potentially getting rid of cards that corp wouldn’t want to have drawn.[/quote]

I’d like to start by stating that your username is amazing.

My thought is that you don’t need to constantly run archives for that pressure to exist. IMO you want to target ICE as Noise with parasite, Imp and mills whenever possible. If that’s the case, you don’t need to run every 3-6 cards because you can put pressure on the corp through every server because they can’t protect them.

If I were going to check archives, I would wait till there were 4-6 cards. That is based on only experience, so take it as you will.

1 Like

###[Spetzel][1] (45 cards)

  • [Quetzal: Free Spirit][2]

Event (11)

  • 1 [Levy AR Lab Access][3] •••
  • 2 [Lucky Find][4] ••••
  • 1 [Quality Time][5] •
  • 1 [Quest Completed][6]
  • 2 [Scrubbed][7]
  • 3 [Sure Gamble][8]
  • 1 [Vamp][9]

Hardware (7)

  • 3 [Deep Red][10]
  • 1 [E3 Feedback Implants][11] ••
  • 3 [Prepaid VoicePAD][12]

Resource (17)

  • 2 [Armitage Codebusting][13]
  • 3 [Daily Casts][14]
  • 3 [Duggar’s][15]
  • 2 [Liberated Account][16]
  • 1 [New Angeles City Hall][17]
  • 2 [Public Sympathy][18]
  • 1 [Rachel Beckman][19] •
  • 1 [Same Old Thing][20]
  • 2 [The Supplier][21] ••••

Icebreaker (6)

  • 3 [Knight][22]
  • 3 [Overmind][23]

Program (4)

  • 2 [D4v1d][24]
  • 2 [Parasite][25]

Built with [http://netrunner.meteor.com/][26]
[1]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/decks/hfaNxbh2M2xbXQx3z
[2]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/quetzal-free-spirit-first-contact
[3]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/levy-ar-lab-access-creation-and-control
[4]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/lucky-find-double-time
[5]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/quality-time-humanitys-shadow
[6]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/quest-completed-fear-and-loathing
[7]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/scrubbed-the-spaces-between
[8]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/sure-gamble-core
[9]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/vamp-trace-amount
[10]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/deep-red-mala-tempora
[11]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/e3-feedback-implants-trace-amount
[12]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/prepaid-voicepad-second-thoughts
[13]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/armitage-codebusting-core
[14]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/daily-casts-creation-and-control
[15]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/duggars-first-contact
[16]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/liberated-account-trace-amount
[17]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/new-angeles-city-hall-future-proof
[18]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/public-sympathy-cyber-exodus
[19]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/rachel-beckman-first-contact
[20]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/same-old-thing-creation-and-control
[21]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/the-supplier-first-contact
[22]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/knight-mala-tempora
[23]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/overmind-honor-and-profit
[24]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/d4v1d-the-spaces-between
[25]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/parasite-core
[26]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/decks/hfaNxbh2M2xbXQx3z

Here’s my first take on Quetzal deck. Comments?
(Mulligan for a duggars).

I was running a version with 3 wyldside & 3 duggars, with some success.

someone reads team covenant.

3 Likes

I’m generally aware of team covenant - but I have no idea they have a quetzal deck. Do you have a link for it?

@Chill84 is talking about this blog post extoling the omg amazing The Supplier

That dude has a bit of a point, but I feel like his math is missing something. Am I just reading shoddily, or is he in fact not factoring in the resources spent to acquire The Supplier?

(Liberated Accounts for 4 is decent though, no argument there :D)

Here’s another angle on the Quetzal question. Whilst I agree with @mediohxcore that the Siphon spam is the obvious build I’m still 100% that Reina isn’t better at it because she can exploit the windows when the corp is broke better. We’ll see. But how about thinking of Quetzal as a Morning Star enabler? I felt the pre-paid Whizzard deck I was running pre-Spaces Between (oh how that feels like the Dark Ages for Anarch…) was a decent deck but got shelved because it fell over massively to NBN and Weyland because digging for an 8 cost, 2 MU fracter to deal with Wraparound or Ice Wall was just horrible. Whereas Quetzal doesn’t care, and by the time they have multiple barriers out, they’re costing you a credit to get through. It will need Inject, obviously, and Imp to simulate Whizzard’s ability - but worth trying I think.

3 Likes

Brought this to the LGS last night; went 2-0 casual versus PE and ETF.

###[Quetzal Denial 1.0][1] (45 cards)

  • [Quetzal: Free Spirit][2]

Event (13)

  • 2 [Account Siphon][3] ••••• •••
  • 1 [Deja Vu][4]
  • 3 [Dirty Laundry][5]
  • 1 [Quality Time][6] •
  • 3 [Sure Gamble][7]
  • 3 [Vamp][8]

Hardware (5)

  • 3 [Deep Red][9]
  • 2 [E3 Feedback Implants][10] ••••

Resource (8)

  • 3 [Daily Casts][11]
  • 2 [Duggar’s][12]
  • 3 [Same Old Thing][13]

Icebreaker (5)

  • 3 [Knight][14]
  • 1 [Mimic][15]
  • 1 [Yog.0][16]

Program (14)

  • 2 [Crescentus][17] ••
  • 1 [D4v1d][18]
  • 2 [Imp][19]
  • 1 [Keyhole][20]
  • 3 [Parasite][21]
  • 3 [Pawn][22]
  • 2 [Rook][23]

Built with [http://netrunner.meteor.com/][24]
[1]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/decks/u3AqcMCros3SgJbCB
[2]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/quetzal-free-spirit-first-contact
[3]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/account-siphon-core
[4]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/deja-vu-core
[5]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/dirty-laundry-creation-and-control
[6]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/quality-time-humanitys-shadow
[7]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/sure-gamble-core
[8]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/vamp-trace-amount
[9]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/deep-red-mala-tempora
[10]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/e3-feedback-implants-trace-amount
[11]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/daily-casts-creation-and-control
[12]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/duggars-first-contact
[13]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/same-old-thing-creation-and-control
[14]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/knight-mala-tempora
[15]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/mimic-core
[16]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/yog-0-core
[17]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/crescentus-a-study-in-static
[18]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/d4v1d-the-spaces-between
[19]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/imp-what-lies-ahead
[20]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/keyhole-true-colors
[21]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/parasite-core
[22]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/pawn-opening-moves
[23]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/rook-opening-moves
[24]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/decks/u3AqcMCros3SgJbCB

(Doing this from memory, I realize now there were 2 Public Sympathy. may have been at 47, or my numbers may be off on a couple things)

Something important to note about Quetzal: in both games, I only used her ability twice, to break a Himitsu and a Wall of Thorns against PE. But you would be wrong to think her ability is wasted. Quetzal’s ability is more valuable in the way it changes the Corp’s typical play. Against HB, Eli’s and a Bastion sat uninstalled in hand all game. They aren’t worth the click to install, much less rez. While it is easier to say at first that Reina is better at denial (a point too early to confirm), Quetzal is a very powerful ID. Duggar’s was an all-star against PE (for obvious reasons), and against ETF I ended up Vamping three times and Siphoning three times (after one SOT). The deck can float tags or not, depending on the other end. Another beauty is once the Corp is poor, you can pressure them like crazy and there’s nothing you can do. You can bounce Rook around and keep servers wide open (between both games, my 2 opponents rezzed a total of 5 ICE). I am looking forward to play Quetzal more, and she is going to be my new go-to on OCTGN. I am sure this list will go through many changes, but right now it is very fun. Surprise Keyhole after Rook’ing RND is a thing of beauty. First things to go will probably be one Knight for another Rook, as it is the all-star here.

Note that early Slaghund data indicates Quetzal is extremely good at this stage. She’s been above Andy on some days! That said, I suspect that a fair amount of this may be Corps not knowing how to play against her very unusual ability.

1 Like

Given how accurately this also describes Whiz, you’d almost think there was a theme there :smiley:

2 Likes

ever the snarky one. I would argue that Quetzal changes the Corp’s typical play more than any other Anarch (so far). they can’t do anything about Noise or Reina, and Asset decks have to play their assets against Whizzard anyway.

True, but people playing those decks need to adapt and guard assets with ICE.

I think the corps are doing it wrong! You can’t just ditch your barriers vs. Quetzal, you just have to play them anyway. Bastion might be bad, but Himitsu Bako, Ice Wall, Wrap, Wall of Static (ish), and definitely Eli, all need to go on the table unless you have bucket loads of ICE. Quetzal is moderately sad about Next Silver too.

2 Likes

Very true, the corp has to stack it’s barriers on the same server (prob HQ or R&D) instead of spreading them out (a bit like stacking bioroids cancels their vulnerability)

Exactly, but many players, maybe the worse ones, don’t want to invest in the short term to eventually have a secure server. My deck’s idea is to get them broke before they have a chance to rez more than 1 or 2 ICE.

I half-wrote a post exactly along these lines but had to leave to go out so ditched it.
This is exactly correct. You can’t just capitulate by abandoning barriers - sure, you may need a couple to make them effective but you have to make Quetz use her ability.

If Quetz is running without a fracter then you will also discourage multiple runs in a turn by playing out your barriers. We could see a Corp meta shift here if Quetz takes off. The small barriers (Ice Wall, Himitsu, Paper wall etc.) are very vulnerable to Parasite and it may well be that Quetz’s strategy is to eliminate those small ones in order to just leave one manageable one or one that D4v1d can deal with. Bastion is probably the Corp’s friend if this happens.

1 Like

Ice Wall Ice Wall LOLOLOL