I know what is happening. If the runner never wins (e.g. you have a deck with only 3 TFPs total) then the data contains None. I posted a fix.
I’ve been tinkering with Vanity Project and the like a bit and the problem I have with them is that they don’t work well with GRNDL Refinery and ambushes compared to 5/3s. For example, imagine I bluff one of them with 5/3s.
Turn 1: I bluff, the Runner runs it and spends its money.
Turn 2: IAA Agenda
Turn 3: Score
But with Vanity Project, it’s more like this:
Turn 1: Play ambush face-down.
Turn 2: AAA
Turn 3: Runner runs it.
Turn 4: Play agenda.
Turn 5: AAA Agenda.
Turn 6: Score
Which is incredibly slow in comparison and allows them to run on both the bluff and the agenda, I can’t find a way to force them to make a run when I want to or in favourable terms and that sucks.
Mushin No Shin is one way.
Caprice Nisei. It’s the most obvious way, protect your centrals as much as you can, then go. If your bluff is aggressive secretary, hopefully you hit with it, else use back channels. Then just have money, put it behind two tollbooths, and Caprice. So yeah, have fun with that. Maybe old Hollywood grid would work
This is the day Silhouette has been waiting for.
She doesn’t waste time, she’s just biding it
Biotic and Trick of Light would allow you to score Vanity Project from an IAA.
Yeah, I think this is the most reasonable way to do it. ToL, Biotic, or Mushin. I’m erring on the side of HB and Biotic, but I’m on board for Medtec.
Mushin weyland for the ability to rush it behind a mother goddess and score it next turn with blue sun second turn. The runner might just be inclined to play your remote game if you haven’t been keyholed to death
Five freaking agendas in my Mushin-No-Grid deck running two Vanity Project and it seems that I always get one swiped before I have a Punitive in hand.
At least now my 1 of cerebral overwriter and shattered remains can become econ cards through backwards channels. And not slouch econ like Successful Demonstrations, like actually good, oversight AI level econ.
Until it gets hit with a drive by.
I know it’s not a silouette thread, but honestly I can kinda see her having a moment like whizzard did with L4J - after months of crim being garbage (or years in anarchs case) suddenly there’ll be a critical threshold of good cards and it’ll be like, “yeah, I guess Andy’s better, but no one expects the expose spam!”
one can hope, anyways…
silhouette gets shut off as easily as gabe, and even when she’s on you’re getting a less valuable effect
That’s cause she’s not spending her hours making blackguard work
22222211111111 and The Board in an invincible server (Archer and 3x Marcus Batty?) is the best agenda composition to prevent the runner from getting to 7 points
The problem with the board has always been that if you have an invincible server, you could have just used it to score agendas and win anyways. Using the board means it has to be literally invincible, not just for a finite period of time, and then you have to create another strong server so that you can win before you mill out. Then again, if you can do both of those, The Board is much quicker to set up than scoring 7 points, but that’s basically its only pro.
Pre-post edit - I’m probably taking it too seriously, so sorry if I just ruined your joke.
Actually GGG22211111 would be even better. Probably 3 Atlas 3 Hostile Takeover 2 Chronos Project.
I sort of agree that it’s hard enough to get an invincible server in the first place; but the benefit of using The Board means the runner can’t win out of r&d while you’re trying to score in your invincible server.
I’m not sure how you can then gain inevitability. Something like 2x rework means you never have to die from mill, but how to win… With damage? With fast advance? Or can it just be a draw?
This might be better in hb than Weyland.
Edit - the rework thing doesn’t work. I’m not sure if there’s a way other than scoring hades fragment.
The time needed to set up the board in an actually invincible server is more than the time needed to score out of a mostly invincible server, most of the time.
If you get to 7 points, you win. If you get the board set up in an invincible server, you probably win. The question is which is easier - most of the time the first is.
Rework goes into archives, and can’t get fished out. Jackson which can fish it out, is removed from the game. Archived Memories can count as an extra use of rework, but it also goes away. Reclamation Order for Rework and eventually for itself is the only way to succeed, but there’s no way to win from there and generally the runner can just get rid of your battys one at a time.
What do people think about taking advantage of Vanity project for Punitive Counterstrike? Are there too many hand size-increasing and meat damage protection cards? Does it make scoring out impossible?
I’m thinking the best way to take advantage of Punitive and Vanity Project is to have a lower agenda density. This helps three things: 1) The runner is less likely to steal an agenda before you have Punitive(s) and enough creds; 2) The runner will be less likely to steal Vanity Project as the winning agenda, thus enabling Punitive; 3) Currents can also be very strong with less agendas and Weyland’s currents both synergize with this kind of deck (Housekeeping and Paywall). Low agenda density increases the upsides and decreases the downsides of Punitive to make it maximally efficient. Here’s my preliminary decklist to explore this concept:
Punitive 5-agenda (49 cards)
Agenda (5)1 Glenn Station 1 Government Takeover 3 Vanity Project •••
Asset (10)1 Cerebral Overwriter •• 1 Elizabeth Mills 2 Executive Boot Camp 2 Jackson Howard •• 2 Private Contracts 2 Student Loans
Operation (17)1 Archived Memories •• 1 Fast Track 3 Hedge Fund 2 Housekeeping 3 Mushin No Shin ••••• • 3 Punitive Counterstrike 3 Restructure 1 Snatch and Grab
Barrier (6)3 Hive 1 Ice Wall 1 Meru Mati 1 Spiderweb
Code Gate (3)3 Checkpoint
Sentry (7)3 Errand Boy 2 Negotiator 2 Taurus
ICE (1)1 Mother Goddess
Built with http://netrunner.meteor.com/
Most meat damage decks still have scoring out as the primary win condition, using the flatline threat to impede the runner. This deck swaps the priority of win conditions; meat damage is plan A, while scoring out is plan B. If you want to emphasize Punitive even more, I would swap out the sole 2pt agenda (Glenn Station) for a 3pt agenda like The Cleaners.
In order to execute Plan A (Punitive flatline), simply gain credits and draw into Punitives quickly.
To execute Plan B, I’ve included several tools. The first option for scoring out is Mushin no Shin. The goal is to put the runner in a lose-lose situation: either they steal the agenda and face flatline, or they let you score one of your five agendas. The x1 Cerebral raises the stakes, even if it’s trashed out of centrals, by threatening a runner safe from Punitive. It can also mask Government Takeover, allowing it to be scored.
The second option for scoring out is Mother Goddess against a deck without means to deal with it. Especially with Blue Sun, you can ensure Mother Goddess’s only type is Mythic and lock a runner out. This is not a very safe play and is worse than no ice in situations in which the runner can deal with it (most runner decks can). Keep in mind the most common ways of dealing with Mother Goddess:
- Parasite + Datasucker
- Bypass (Femme and Inside Job)
- AI (Faust, Atman, etc.)
Another benefit in this deck however, is that centrals are less susceptible while an agenda is being scored behind Mother Goddess because of the low number of agendas overall. This might actually be the best-case scenario for Underway Grid because it prevents exposing a Cerebral/agenda and bypassing Mother Goddess. Underway might be a good inclusion, especially with the zero rez cost.
One of my favorite parts about this list is the amount of fun, porous Weyland ice it uses. Checkpoint and Elizabeth Mills could easily be replaced if the BP makes you queasy, but I think it’s worth it when timed correctly. Student Loans could also be swapped out to make the deck less porous, its effect can help, but is not crucial for the deck’s strategy.
If you can’t tell, I am very excited about these new agendas shaking up deckbuilding and Netrunner basics! Next step, Harmony Medtech 6-agenda with Global Food Initiative!
I don’t know where Vanity Project fits, but HRI and The Cleaners both win games for the 6-agenda punitive deck. I’m not sure why you want to remove either. 1 fewer agenda means the runner can play to 7 again and means punitive is turned off after almost any agenda steal. I think you could make a Mushin + Off The Grid deck with Vanity project perhaps. Maybe 3 Vanity Projects, 3 HRI/PriReq. That said, I’ve heard rumour that Atlas is a pretty good agenda. Maybe 2 Atlas, 2 Vanity Projects, 3 HRI/PriReq. Few agendas probably does help that deck.
You have some good points about using all 3-pointers and allowing for two punitive windows. I think it might be worth it to include government takeover and vanity project to both decrease agenda density and increase punitive damage. Government Takeover can enable kills with one Punitive or through Plascrete with two Punitives. Vanity Project can help kill against a hand-size increase with two Punitives.
Oh, I know