Nisei Division - Can It Be Competitive?

Since Anarch can easily play with their trash pile I don’t think it would do much tho.

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Why is HRF bad for Nisei? There’s certainly times when you just need to outbid the runner when he can’t bid as much as you can. That card isn’t about long term economy, it’s about burst econ right when the runner thinks you can’t do something.

There’s no point in horizontal Nisei Div but for one card, Psychic field.
So what you gonna do : play this and be trashed in first next click ? Protect it with batty trash and use credit / click for a second remote ? Put Caprice Nisei and trash the one on the scoring remote ?

Secondly, the perfect equilibrium given by Nisei div is broken with this, encouraging the corp and the runner to bid 2. It’s ok if you don’t want your psi to trigger, but you absolutly need them to trigger :slight_smile:
And if you tried to mind the runner bidding 0, then you lost slots and clicks that could have been “hard” money and clic credit :slight_smile:

EDIT. I was really tired when I wrote this, and I still am.

So if you get money for betting that amount of money, there’s no difference to any of your bets. The runner will now bet 2 while you bet 0. Or 1. This is shin psi mega kumite, the highest order of psi mastery. The corp should bet 2, the runner should bet 0.

If you need another side to convince you of the value, consider people that know your psi habits. If you have a tendency to lose psi games, try them with this card out and they will probably get better. Put another way, they can’t get worse, right? Suppose you’re a poor psi player and you play a card that is supposed to change the way you play psi games. Now play exactly the same. Iwould be willing to bet you’ve won a few more games because of this.

Now, if this is not a problem for you, then why not include 1 of it, and play with a few less credits than you normally would, and rush some agendas out behind Caprice and Ash. Sometimes 1-2 credits is all the difference in the world.

You click install instead of click credit and then the runner will start their turn by running it, like an Eve Campaign in a non-horizontal glacier. If unprotected then it will be trashed :wink:

Before thinking about its liability as a running forever card, you should start first to think if it can survive, because I think it can’t, in those decks :wink:

Then after this, there is its effect. If it’s giving clues about your psi, just to win 1c/1c/1c betting 0/1/2 instead of 1c/0c/-1c, when you choosed the most blur ID about psis, then it’s a bad idea too (I think), unless you don’t care giving clues about more-likely-one-shot-psis like Caprice ?
By doing this you’ve just transformed the runner playing psis in your deck as throwing a dice when there’s some (few) control (I know he knows I know), manipulation (look, I’ll play dice…and bet what I think) & empathy (it’s best interest is X, mine is Y, conclusion is Z) to have when the runner and the corp have the same scale of interest :wink:

You’re the one that want to throw dices, not the runner. If you’re telling him “look, I’ll win 1c whatever your choice is”, then he’ll start throwing dice. And you really don’t want this. You want him to think :slight_smile:

But throwing those dice will still drain the runner’s money, and not yours. If the runner is way ahead on credits, maybe that’s not an issue, but in the early game that could be a big deal. If I can guarantee that a lone Upayoga is a 6 point credit swing (-4 for the runner, +2 for me) by only bidding 2 each time, I’d consider that to be worth the click to install HRF.

As for trashing it, it’s a loss for the runner to spend a click and 4 credits to trash a nice-but-not-necessary asset. If I don’t need it, I won’t use ice to protect it, but if the runner ignores it then it helps my economy in the short run. Another point for Nisei rush, I guess. I could also see it diverting Councilman attention from Caprice, Jackson, and Marcus, since it looks scarier for the runner than it actually is. Give it a month and nobody will bother, but you might catch some councilmen with it now.

I do see that HRF might turn out to be like, say, Scrubber in a Whizzard deck – card slots unnecessarily spent on something your ID does well enough on its own. It won’t be a Nisei Division autoinclude, but I can see it being worthwhile in some decks.

Still, HRF will not stay :slight_smile:

I think its a bad card for several reasons:

  1. It’s an asset. It can be killed by Whizzard for 1 credit and provides a Security Testing to Criminals.
  2. It only works if you are firing PSI games. The Runner will strive to prevent that and simply break your ICE.
  3. It tries to profit out of PSI games, but you should not seek profit on the PSI games most likely to fire like TFP and Caprice.
  4. It takes deck slots and the deck is very, very tight on deck slots. You need a lot of ICE and tricks.

Sure it’s great with Upayoga (Force the Runner to spend 2 while you gain 1? Deal!) but Upayoga is already nasty enough that it should not fire very often.

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Last week at LGS, I was Noise versus Nisei. I waited for them to score first agenda then dropped Employee Strike. It was about as disastrous for them as Cerebral Static would have been for me. I denied a few HRF with Imps and the game was a cakewalk.

Ihaven’t lost a game with my new Nisei deck.
Juuuust saying

You’re nerfing your upayogas.

There is a (rare) situation using “taming” techniques, I can make them -6/+2, when you can’t have more than -5/+2 (more likely -4/+1 or -4/0)
HRF destroys your needs, +1 everywhere makes you loose half of the control you have in psi :slight_smile:

I’d rather have subliminal aka +1-2c when they don’t run + giraffe bluring + always psi ready than +.66c per psi using a clic, a server and a diggable R&D slot.

You’re also telling the runner “well, at least twice from rez, I have to spend money on 1st psi or else I clicked install HRF for nothing”. And you’re telling yourself “at least, if he win the psi, he must pay”.
This is making you choose from the 0/1/2 range to 1/2 range. But hey, you liked the runner to hesitate to go there, now you’re an obvious bidder.
This is where this sucks donkey things.

The runner would have 50% chance when he had (and you had) a perfect 33%/33%/33%. What you know about psi because you spec’d made you win 70%+, now you got a random 50%. Or with an unnatural 70%, you just lost tempo because you need to wait +.66c two whole turns bidding money 1st psi instead of having clicked +1c. PADs are faster.

This is really like Palana putting the draw asset for runners. I always end saying “thanks bro, a clic a turn giving you 1c + 1 card was the most stupid thing you could do”, because making the runner draw solves the runner’s problems and makes new problems for the corp, it’s this simple.

You’d better think about the +1/+1/+1 vs +1/+0/-1 consequences as a runner and splash a money op, you’d gain tempo and better psi winning rates imho.
I would be semi-serious there but psis are like love, you have best results when interests are hidden and convergent and if you’re obvious and divergent, you’ll end dumped :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

HRF ends being a very bad asset : using Subliminals instead, play + clic 1c, with same psi w/r, HRF is better the 4th time it triggers for money after you installed it :slight_smile:

150 games and wining around 55-60% with my T1.66 deck of battygrail love is enough for me. :slight_smile:

(I like to think 66.66% w/r but it’s not true :slight_smile: )

I would like to add to this list:

  1. you only profit the first time you spend credits, so it somewhat tips your hand that your first bid is more likely to be 1 or 2.
  2. It’s unique, so spacekittens hate it.

Here’s the Nisei deck I’ve been playing. Going to have to find room for a current, and I’ve swapped one Restructure for Fast Track.

http://meteor.stimhack.com/decks/8pvtkAAM5sj6EGvN8/

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A few months ago whenever Mind Game came out I decided I wanted to do goofy shit with Nisei Division. Since then I’ve grown to have a healthy respect for the ID; going through several iterations of the deck and streamlining the build. I honestly think it’s on equal footing with Palana for rushing. Would love to hear your feedback.

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An early Employee Strike makes Nisei SO sad…