Novice queries about PPVP Kate

Netrunner General
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I have been playing for a short time as per my other posts. In that time I managed to get used to a few corps and Andy. I am now taking a look into Kate, and I have some questions!

Concerning decks like this one:

  1. Is PPV Kate the current preferred choice? Why does PPV work so well with Kate in particular? It seems that criminal plays the most events…is it because Kate installs it at a reduced price?

  2. If PPV comes out late, does the deck suffer? How does it generally generate sustainable economy? Can Magnum Opus be used?

  3. What are the main uses of Scavenge? To recover Lady and re-position Cypher? To alter Atman’s strength?

  4. Which cards tends to be played most with Same Old Thing? Economy or tricks, or it depends?

  5. Regarding the ice, I imagine Lady is taken as it is more efficient than Corroder? And Sharpshooter to break things Mimic can’t? Is the decision between Gordian and Zu based on MU? How about Faerie and Femme? And why is Deus X sometimes included?

  6. When is Stimhack likely to be used?

  7. I guess I don’t really understand the strategy of the deck at the moment…how is it played :slight_smile:

Thanks a lot for your advice on this!

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PPVP is the most common Kate but other builds are reasonable too. The $1 discount is a big deal but also, Kate has Diesel and Quality Time in faction so can easily draw more event cards.

It does suffer, but usually it’s fine. Generate economy by drawing a lot of cards until you see money creating events. Definitely no Opus, 2MU and expensive to install are deal breakers. You make more money with the PPVP+Events package.

All of the above.

Whatever you need at the time.

Lady also doesn’t cost influence. Gordian and Zu are both 1MU in the deck, Zu is cheaper to install initially but more expensive in the long run. Faerie costs too much influence but Femme is ok. Deus X protects against net damage decks and AP sentries if those are common in your meta.

Ideally to surprise the Corp and steal an agenda from a remote when they thought it was safe. You can pay for an Ash trace, or install breakers with SMC/Clone Chip using that money

Basically draw a lot, make a lot of money, and wait. You are the reactive player, you don’t need to make many runs. When you do run use multi-access to see more cards without having to repeatedly pay to break the ICE. Don’t be afraid to discard extra cards, as you can get them back with Clone Chip later if needed.

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  1. Is PPV Kate the current preferred choice? Why does PPV work so well with Kate in particular? It seems that criminal plays the most events…is it because Kate installs it at a reduced price?

In my opinion (and most peoples’), Prepaid Kate is the best runner at the moment. Prepaid works really well with Kate for a few reasons, chiefly amongst them is the discount: it’s worth noting that if you install Prepaid turn 1 click 1, you can then Sure Gamble up to 9 the next click. Another (of the many) reasons is that Kate already wanted to be drawing a lot anyway to make the most out of her discount, and it works really well with Event driven economy. Getting discounts on cards like The Maker’s Eye, Legwork, etc, is even better.

  1. If PPV comes out late, does the deck suffer? How does it generally generate sustainable economy? Can Magnum Opus be used?

Opus is a completely different deck that wants a vastly different card pool.

Without Prepaid, the Quality Time lists can struggle a little, but you still get a lot of econ from events.

  1. What are the main uses of Scavenge? To recover Lady and re-position Cypher? To alter Atman’s strength?

Usually to recover Lady, sometimes to re-position CyCy. It can do basically everything you can think of, though. I’ve used it to get things out of my heap, though, and I distinctly remember one game of testing where I Scavenged into an Atman from hand to break into a Susanoo-no-mikoto’d remote.

  1. Which cards tends to be played most with Same Old Thing? Economy or tricks, or it depends?

Depends! If you suspect agendas are in HQ, Legwork’s good, for example. It’s very largely situation based, though.

  1. Regarding the ice, I imagine Lady is taken as it is more efficient than Corroder? And Sharpshooter to break things Mimic can’t? Is the decision between Gordian and Zu based on MU? How about Faerie and Femme?

Lady is significantly more efficient than Corroder (Eli 1.0 break costs alone is good enough of an argument).

Mimic and Sharpshooter combined with Atman get reach of all of the sentries you want, without paying a stupid price like Garotte, only to be paying 1 more than you should be for Architect…

Faeries and Femme cost influence. I’m a fan of a Sucker over Femme, as Sucker increases Atman’s reach, but some people are different. You do not need Faerie at all in this deck!

CyCy + Zu is a decision that not everyone uses these days. I use Gordian over the place of both, but both Gordian and a CyCy + Zu mix is valid. I’d say not to have a CyCy + Gordian mix, though, you’re paying too much for too little of a benefit.

And why is Deus X sometimes included?

I think it’s for the PE matchup, but I don’t know. I don’t think that card deserves the deckslot personally. It’s a dead draw in almost all games, and you can beat PE pretty easily without it.

  1. When is Stimhack likely to be used?

To break a scoring window or just as a 9c econ card. It’s a really good shout to kill what you suspect is a SanSan and get a discounted breaker out at the same time.

  1. I guess I don’t really understand the strategy of the deck at the moment…how is it played

Draw a lot, and don’t run much. Prepaid Kate doesn’t want to run through a Tollbooth for a single access. Other than runs to kill MHC/PAD or to run a scoring remote, she doesn’t run much outside of through events.

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Been playing PPVP before it came out, so, my thoughts:

  1. I loved the idea of getting 2 discounts a turn. To be able to play this and still play Sure Gamble with one’s starting creds was pretty appealing. Then, Lucky Find hit, and the rest is history.
  2. PPVP late stinks, but, when you play Levy, and reset, it’s still good in a long game. Opus can be played, but, the MUs need to be flexible, so, it is counter to the idea of the deck.
  3. Scavenge is a quick way to reset Lady. I play Gordian or CyCy, so, my only target usually is Lady. Also, you can dump another program, like the expended Lady, to reinstall a Parasite. Atman is a magic bullet, usually set to cover higher problems. Set it at 4 v. most decks, or 6 v. RP.
  4. Same Old Thing is frequently used for econ cards, but, with a high amount of multi-access cards like Maker’s Eye or Legwork, it can be used for those, as well. Finally, if you dump your Levy early, it’s a way to play it without having to have it clog your hand up early.
  5. Deus Ex was great against large Bioroids, or when Jinteki: PE was a major problem. With the latter deck really losing favour under the rise of Anarchs, Deus Ex became a pretty expendable card. Sharpshooter is rarely used, but can save your bacon v. Archers or IT Dept. Discard it, and have a Clone Chip ready if you suspect trouble. Influence is an issue, and Lady spares the 2 used for Corroder for other goodies like Parasite or Legwork.
  6. Stimhack is that surprise card. Also, with SMC or Clone Chip, those creds can be used to get out a program on the cheap. Finally, it can be an econ card to fight large trash cost targets, like San San City Grid or Crisium Grid (always with the Grids!).
  7. Draw cards, build creds. Snipe remotes when you suspect trouble. Otherwise, make powerful runs on Centrals when the timing is right. The deck should always be able to get into a server, and can outmoney most Corps.

Good luck! Enjoy!

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To mulligan or not to mulligan… @spags: What are you looking for in a starting hand vs NEH and vs RP?

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If you decide to run this particular version of PPVP Kate, make sure you’re really good at Lady counter math and playing around damage combos. You might want to slot in Utopia Shard if you expect to see a lot of Scorched Earth. I’ve also seen a few people dropping the second Lady for a Snowball lately to deal with cheap barrier stacking.

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Maybe this just makes me sound like an asshole, but if you need to replace a Lady with a Snowball you’re probably playing the deck wrong.

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Crim can play a mountain of events, but Kate 1) gets a discount and 2) plays a lot of events with a cost - Siphon isn’t synergistic with PPVP, and 3) Kate’s event suite is less situational, making it easier to play one relevant event per turn. PPVP can work in Crim, but not the the level as it can in Kate.

The more abstract reason for why the deck is strong is a discount cascade. Kate is balanced around her ability applying minimally to econ cards. VoicePad is one of the few exceptions.

VoicePad is an econ card, that (in addition to paying for Maker’s Eyes and such) also give a discount to econ events.

So you’re getting a discount on a discount generating card, which is applying to your econ cards.

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I have yet to lose a game to a PPVP Kate who actually installed a Snowball, so you’re probably right.

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Thanks a lot everyone for the tips! In particular I hadn’t understood that the deck slowly builds up and makes powerful runs at the right times (whereas criminals tend to run more often). It’s a very enjoyable deck to play, with a “toolbox” feel to it.

I found out Stimhack’s uses just now, using it to power through a difficult server and retrieve the game-winning agenda. Without it I would have had no chance to get it. So, it can really surprise the opponent when they believe a scoring window has opened up (like when you have no credits).

I did struggle against meat damage though, so I’ve added one plascrete as a safeguard. Against net damage I think I can play carefully to manage it (within reason). But man, it’s hard to manage all the corp’s tricks in a single runner deck!

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What sort of meat damage were you struggling against?

Typically this kind of deck is able to keep a money lead and stay ahead of Midseasons or SEA Source and so doesn’t get tagged and makes it very difficult for the corp to land meat damage.

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  1. Shaper has Quality Time, Maker’s Eye and Levy, whereas criminal plays more 0-cost and 1-cost events. Special Order and Inside Job are good cards also but both are situational and generally worse late game, when you have more PPVPs set up. Obviously PPVP doesn’t help playing Siphons. People have done it though; it’s not the worst. Probably most importantly, Shaper is better self-contained as a faction and can afford to spend the influence for 3 Lucky Find. Criminal has Desperado/Testing as a good alternative.

  2. Yes, it can suffer if it doesn’t see PPVP quickly, but you have lots of draw to find them. A lot of PPVP games are lost because the player doesn’t find them quickly, but it usually does and it’s hard to beat it on a good start. Opus is too MU intensive and generally better without other economy backup because after you pay $5 for it you just want to be clicking it a ton to get good value. The best supplemental optional econ option is 1-2 Symmetrical Visage, because it acts similarly to prepaid and draws you into the actual prepaids.

  3. Yes.

  4. Maker’s Eye, Levy, Sure Gamble/Lucky Find. When your events cost 0, pretty much any of them can be reasonable to SOT.

  5. Gordian/Zu/2 CyCy is a preference thing. You can do Zu/CyCy if you think people will play too many spread out code gates to reasonable CyCy, double CyCy for max efficiency, or Gordian to save slots. IMO the Gordian is utter shit. Lady is an amazing Eli breaker, and is in faction. Femme is expensive and usually does something similar enough to Mimic or Atman anyway, and Faerie is too much influence. Deus Ex is mostly there for Jinteki flatline decks for insurance against things like Ronin and Philotic Entanglement or really anything that might kill you, but is mostly bad elsewhere, so some people cut it as a metagame decision because there is so much you want to fit into the deck.

  6. Whenever you make a run that you can spend $9 on. You usually use it to get out a breaker as well as break ICE or trash something, but it’s great against any remote protected by Ash as well.

  7. You mostly want to threaten to stop the other player from scoring as you set up your prepaids in the early game with SMC, which can deal with one-ice remotes as well as get Clot against fast advance decks. Later, you transition into a game centered around high impact run events like the Maker’s Eye and Legwork. Like most of the best decks, it has the potential to attack from many angles so that the Corp isn’t really safe anywhere.

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With regards to Stimhack that card became so much better for me when I just started firing if off whenever I could use all 9 of the credits. Waiting to try and ‘get them’ is a waste of time.

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Luckily, you didn’t play me at Worlds.

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Remember when you facechecked my Wall of Thorns and had to pay roughly eighteen million dollars to break it?

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One of my few errors on the day.

Remember when I scored 2 agendas in one turn to beat you because you couldn’t land a Siphon, and kept my SanSan up all game?

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Good times? Heh.

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I’m never sure if @spags and @mediohxcore actually hate each other, or really like taking the piss.

Having watched Dan on stream I think it’s the latter.

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A further update; last night I played against HBFA. Close to the start of the game (HQ was iced up) I stole an agenda from R&D, trashed an Adonis from R&D and further trashed an early SanSan City Grid from a naked remote. My opponent proceeded to place an ice on a remote and ice up R&D.

I had no breakers in hand so I kept drawing and building my economy. Next, out came another SanSan (behind the remote ice) with my opponent scoring an agenda on top of it the turn after. This led to an ABT which placed a second ice in front of the SanSan. As I recall, he had a Turing on the outside followed by an Ichi 1.0.

At this point I had a Datasucker and an Atman and little else in the way of breakers in my hand. I could just about get through the ice by installing Atman at 3 or 4, but it was very expensive and I could not even steal the NAPD that was there, let alone get rid of the SanSan!

Following this, my opponent played out agenda after agenda and easily won the game in a matter of minutes.

I am wondering, did I do something wrong in this game or was I unlucky with the card draws? For the record, I have not played against HBFA before. It seems that while the corp getting all their agendas early is generally terrible for them, in this case it was just what they would have wanted?

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Sounds a little unlucky, though Turing Ichi 1.0 is a rough server for Kate to break. I think trashing the SanSan was the mistake. Save your credits, and instead keep a SMC (and later a Clone Chip) for Clot. Use the money you saved not trashing the assets (Adonis was a good trash if he didn’t have another up and running) to continue building up or digging for more SMC/breakers. Sometimes Kate needs to forfeit the first two agendas against a good start HB.