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Official Rules Question Thread

Yup, you got it!

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Thanks, I appreciate the confirmation.

This question on stackexchange is somewhat theoretical, but interesting enough that I thought I should post it here:

Essentially, in the absence of tournament structure, where round time and seeding resolve the issue, what happens if you reach a position from which nobody can win (if both players play optimally)? Is this an ‘infinite loop’, which the corp must choose to end, and therefore lose? In that case, should the corp lose even in a tournament, i.e. they shouldn’t be allowed to keep cycling their cards until time is called?


I’d call it a draw and move on.

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Good answer. Might be something for Nisei to have a look at and clarify. I think the rules shouldn’t have holes, even ones that are typically unimportant.

The inifinite loop rules are on our list of things to investigate :slight_smile:


Runner has Hippo installed and zero hand size. On encountering a lonely Komainu, Komainu gets no subs. Insta-trash with Hippo?



Here it is in the Comprehensive Rules 1.1 (pp. 82-82):

“a. If a condition refers to “all” items in a set and that set contains zero items, the
condition is automatically satisfied as soon as it would be satisfied for one or more
of that item.
Example: The Runner plays Forked, initiating a run on a server. The first piece of ice that the Runner encounters is Troll. If Troll’s “when encountered” ability does not end the run, the Runner is automatically considered to have broken all of the zero subroutines on Troll as soon as step 6.9.3c of the encounter begins, and Troll is trashed with Forked.”


I thought I asked about this here before but I can’t seem to find it:

How does Seidr Laboratories interact with R&D multiaccess when the runner loses a click in between accesses?

Example situation:

Runner is accessing 5 cards off of R&D due to some combination of Maker’s Eye, Turning Wheel, R&D Interface.

Let’s say the order of R&D is, from the top down:

Ikawah Project
Data Raven
Eli 1.0

Access 1, the top card of R&D: Aiki, leave it on top.
Access 2, the second card off of R&D, Brainstorm, leave it on top.
Access 3, the third card of R&D, Ikawah Project, the runner steals it, triggering Seidr. The runner elects to put NGO Front on top of R&D.

What do you do with access 4? Do you access the Data Raven (the next card after Ikawah Project)? Do you access the NGO Front?

What happens with access 5?


Disclaimer: cards chosen for the example were chosen on the basis of what letter they started with so the example might be easier to follow. I take no responsibility for any deck you make with those suggestions, unless it makes DotW in which case I want partial credit.

I believe the correct order here is first NGO front, then Data Raven. You access whatever the top-most unaccessed card is, and cards being shuffled makes them be considered to be no longer accessed.

That’s my understanding as well. Example in rule 2 7.2.1. is the closest I could find but not an exact explanation:

Example: The Runner makes a run on R&D using The Maker’s Eye. The second card
that the Runner accesses is Bacterial Programming. They steal it, allowing the Corp to
rearrange, draw, and trash the top 7 cards of R&D (including the first card that the
Runner accessed). Once the Corp has finished this process, the Runner then accesses
their final card, starting with the topmost card of R&D.

The Rules Team (@jakodrako) should probably cover the skip previously accessed part in this section of the rules in the next revision.

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  1. If the corp has a rezzed Sundew and the runner spends their first click to install a PAD Tap, does that PAD Tap trigger? I think the answer is yes, because in 8.3. Steps of Installing a Card it says

8.3.6. If the card is to be the first card in or protecting a new remote server, that server is
created. Move the card to the chosen install location. It becomes installed. If the card is
faceup, it becomes active.
8.3.7. Abilities with “When installed…” trigger conditions become pending, including those on
the installed card.

but I’m not sure because Sundew’s trigger condition isn’t a “When installed…” trigger condition. Do all relevant trigger conditions also happen at 8.3.7 (Dadiana Chacon is another example) and 8.3.7 should be reworded, or are “When installed…” abilities actually different and special?

  1. meta-question: is this still the best place to ask rules questions? Or would I be better off asking them elsewhere?

edit: got an answer on twitter https://twitter.com/Crunchumz/status/1083561850476920832

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  1. I think you’re correct, but I would like an explanation as well.
  2. I think this is still a great place to ask the community. Although you might get fast (if not less knowledge response by creating a Reddit or Dorks post). Now that Jacob is the rules czar, sending a question to https://twitter.com/NISEI_Rules would get you an official response (and it’s much quicker than when ANCUR had to coordinate with FFG).
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Does Gebrselassie interact with boosting icebreaker strength outside of an encounter?

Let’s say Nasir Meidan is running against a server with two unrezzed ICE, namely Eli 1.0 on the outside and IP Block on the inside. Nasir has Corroder installed with Gebrselassie hosted on it. At step 2.c of the run (NISEI rules doc), which is the paid ability window before the ICE-rezzing window, Nasir pays 2 credits to boost Corroder to strength 4. Assuming the corp rezzes both ICE, what strength is Corroder during each encounter?

  • It could be its base strength 2, because the first example under 3.9.5.b says that a boost applied not during an encounter “applies only until the next checkpoint”. The next checkpoint after step 2.c is step 3.b, before the paid ability window during which subroutines can be broken. Gebrselassie doesn’t explicitly replace returns-to-base-strength during encounters, so it may be the case that it doesn’t replace this one - so Corroder starts the encounter with Eli 1.0 at strength 4, but is returned to strength 2 before the paid ability window for breaking subroutines.
  • It could be strength 4, if Gebrselassie has replaced the return-to-base-strength that would have happened at the 2.c checkpoint with a return-to-base-strength at end of turn. The example under 3.9.5.c in the rules doc suggests, but does not explicitly state, this.

Gebrselassie keeps icebreaker strength outside of an encounter until the end of turn. It looks for “until end of the encounter” (including the implicit ones since that’s the default duration) and replaces them with “until the end of the turn”.

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What does the “using only this program” on Bukhgalter really mean? Obviously I need to use Bukhgalter to break the subroutines. Is that all? I remember from the Cold Read/Cloak rulings that using recurring credits counts as using programs. So if I use Cloak here, do I still get the 2 credits? If I use sucker counters, do I still get the the 2 credits?
If using Cloak prevents me from getting 2 credits, does using Cyberfeeder also prevents this? It’s also a recurring credit, but it’s not on a program.

That’s my understanding, yeah. So you can’t say, Grappling Hook some subs and only use Bukhgalter for the remaining one(s) if you want the effect to fire.

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This is covered in the Release Notes:

Does the Runner still gain credits from Bukhgalter if another card is used during the encounter where all subroutines are broken by Bukhgalter (i…e Datasucker to reduce strength)?

Yes, what matters is that all subroutines were broken using Bukhgalter.


One more question.
If Turntable is on the table and a Divested Trust was scored, when an agenda is stolen and turned, which agenda is returned to the Corp’s hand? The agenda stolen that is now in the Corp agenda area, or the agenda that was turned and is now in the Runner’s?