It isn’t definitive; even if an agenda was later forfeit, it was still stolen first. What would be definitive precedent would be if something gets replaced, but you could later act (or later be denied from acting) as if that something happened. It’s important that the replacement occur.
Slums replaces the trash, so nothing is trashed. HBT requires a trash so it doesn’t work. [sorry editing for AKAnderson’s question] Forfeiting an agenda isn’t the same as stealing an agenda, and I believe the game still knows that you stole an agenda, as @ironcache said.
This is the point of contention. I don’t know if I can say this is true from the current rules and precedent. Slums replaces the trash, and any effects that trigger off of that instance of trashing are not able to resolve (as per Replacement Effects in the FAQ). But I don’t see anywhere that states that it erases the knowledge of it happening altogether. And, certainly, we know from the CtM ruling that at least some information about the event is retained (specifically, its contribution to the amount of times).
Conceptually I want to agree that it seems odd that you could HBT after SS, but I don’t think I can say with certainty that it isn’t like that (and, unless we can derive it from precedent and known rule sources, you could very well end up with more situations like the German Nationals, where people just decide to do what they think is right).
Only the ordinal (number) of the trash instance is retained, not the actual trashing. And I just realized you said almost the exact thing above 
1 Like
My perspective here isn’t that I think you’re wrong. It’s that I can’t prove that you’re right.
1 Like
Sneakdoor + Apoc is the example you’re looking for.
5 Likes
That covers it. Thanks.
Sneakdoor’s replacement turns an Archives run into an HQ run, and that replacement means it doesn’t count as an Archives run for Apocalypse.
Salsette Slums replacement turns trashing into RFG, and that replacement means it doesn’t count as trashing for HBT.
5 Likes
Curious interaction that I want to throw out there to make sure I’m playing correctly: Aaron Marron and Activist Support.
Am I able to use Aaron to remove the tag (and draw) given to me by Activist Support at the start of the Corp’s turn? Specifically, is there a window to do so before the Corp’s mandatory draw? Or, at the very least, before their first click?
If not, I fear my Andromeda (re birthed into Iain) Blackmail deck will never be top tier 
Probably a simple question: Does agenda condition are triggered in the Runner Score area as well? For example, I’m looking at Crisis Management: Agenda: Security
If the Runner is tagged, Crisis Management gains “When your turn begins, do 1 meat damage.”
Would that trigger on the runner turn if he his tag and have this agenda in his score area?
Nope. Agendas are only active in the Corp’s score area (unless otherwise stated on the agenda itself, like 15 Minutes).
1 Like
Checking the turn timing chart should provide you with an answer. It’s at the bottom of the FAQ if I recall correctly.
(The answer is, with a very high likelihood, yes you can do it before they can do an action, but beware of Judges)
1 Like
ok, I have another question (sorry I am at work so I cant check my rules, and I am very new to this game).
If the Runner is tagged, Dedicated Response Team gains "Whenever a successful run ends, do 2 meat damage."
Does that mean that it trigger even if the runner thrash it after his successful run?
If the runner is trashing Dedicated Response Team while tagged then no, they do not take the meat damage. When the run ends, Dedicated Response Team is no longer installed.
2 Likes
The strict answer is no. The draw phase of a turn is structured as:
- Action Window
- Turn Begins
- Corp Draws
So Activist procs after the action window, and there isn’t another before the corp draws.
Or, at the very least, before their first click?
There is an action window between the corp drawing and taking their first click. So you should be good.
1 Like
The question has been answered correctly; if you trash DRT before the run ends, it has no effect. To provide some background information, I would reference this wiki page.
Basically, DRT is a conditional ability (denoted by “whenever”), which triggers upon a successful run ending. Up until an ability triggers, it is associated with its source. That is to say, if the source is destroyed, the effect doesn’t occur. Since accessing cards (and subsequently trashing) is before a run ending, you can kill DRT before it has a chance to trigger.
Hope that helps… or at least doesn’t cause further confusion.
You can use Paid Abilities and Rez cards before Corp turn starts.
Step 1.1. Paid Abilities. Rez Cards. Score Agendas.
Step 1.2 Corp Turn Starts (When turn starts conditionals trigger)
Step 1.3 Draw a Card
Since Activist Support does not trigger until 1.2, however, the opportunity to use Aaron has alreay passed in 1.1. But there is good news.
Step 2.1 Gain allotted clicks
Step 2.2 Paid Abilities. Rez Cards. Score Agendas.
Step 2.3 Corp takes an action.
So, you could trigger Aaron in 2.2 to remove the tag gained in 1.2. This comes after the Mandatory Draw but before the Corp spends its first click to take an action. If the Corp can punish your tag in Step 2.2, though, the Corp player could act before you remove your tag.
3 Likes
Thanks @FightingWalloon and @ironcache for the quick and informative responses! Makes perfect sense.
1 Like
Do note that version of the turn timing structure is out of date and the latest version is in the latest FAQ (the changes are irrelevant to this particular question, but can be game changing in another, such as anything relating to Raman Raj)
2 Likes
Looking for precedent (known ruling, FAQ/rule, designer commentary, etc.) that shows that preventing a cost denies the effect outside of trashing as the cost bring prevented. The only examples I can find that have been ruled relate to trashing, which specifically has a caveat in the FAQ (under Trashing as a Cost). I can’t find a more general claim.
Do we have anything to show it works for costs in general? Specifically looking at the upcoming Obokata Protocol, and want to be able to show, definitively, that preventing it disallows stealing.
Also, bonus round; just want to make sure I’m interpreting it correctly, but I can use Paige Piper to search for 0 cards while utilizing Frantic Coding (interrupting the trash portion of the effect without requiring Paige trash) right? Normally you have to find a target when you search the deck for it, but Paige says “any number”, so I can technically search for 0 parasites and find all 0 of them, right?
Not sure why a more general claim is necessary. You don’t get to do things you don’t pay for. The same ruling was made for avoiding the tag from Snatch and Grab though, so there’s that.
If you can find a card you must. If there aren’t any, then you can still perform the search but it fails.
1 Like