Going back to Sensor Net Activation, it might be helpful to think of it like this logically:
Paid: Spend hosted power counter to
Effect 1: Rez a bioroid
Effect 2: Conditional: Derez that bioroid when turn ends.
The important distinction is that, even though it is a conditional ability on the turn ending, it is nested within the paid ability, and thus exists after the paid ability has fired, regardless of if the card itself sticks around (because abilities exist independent of their source once resolved).
This is a different case than abilities with a line break, that are disjoint. For example, using the same notation for breaking news would be:
Conditional: When you score breaking news, give the runner two tags.
Conditional: When your turn ends, the runner loses two tags.
Note that one ability isn’t nesting the other (because they are on separate lines), and thus both are dependent on the source (being the card, Breaking News, in this case). If the source goes, the ability goes.
Arguing against BN being two separate abilities is like arguing against Kati, Anson Rose, CI Fund, Beth, any number of cards having two separate abilities.
I’m glad it appears to have clicked for you now. Sorry we weren’t able to clear it up before, I just didn’t understand why BN was different.
I think the main sticking point for me was the repeated use of the language for the second half. With most of those other cards that have two abilities, they aren’t always both firing in order. The similarity in structure to BN made me think SNA should work that way too. Plus, the Johnny in me wanted to build a deck around that combo.
In all fairness – BN easily could (and I would argue should) have been written as one ability, though, and it would function identically in the vast majority of scenarios. This is part of why the interaction with 24/7 or EoI wasn’t exactly intuitive to a lot of players. The other cards on your list require their abilities to be written and treated as separate to work in even their ‘generic’ cases. (The only exception, I think, is Beth, who could potentially be written as a single ability and still basically work the same – but the text would be cluttered/awkward, so I support her as is.)
The situation is:
Apex, with Reaver installed, 2x Harbinger installed and Heartbeat installed with 2 cards in hand
Apex is hit by Boom!
How does the Heatbeat ‘trash 1 installed card: prevent 1 damage’ resolve?
I am assuming that each trash is an individual paid ability trigger, meaning that Apex can trash 1st Harbinger, draw a card (Reaver trigger), install Harbinger face down (Harbinger trigger), and similarly prevent 2 damage using the 2nd Harbinger as well, then take the last 3 damage from hand.
Is this correct? does each prevent paid ability resolve all of its triggers (and cascading triggers) in this window?
That’s right. You’re facing down 7 damage. You prevent 1 with Heartbeat, resolve any cascading triggers, you’re then facing down 6 damage. You prevent 1 with Heartbeat, etc.
It’s different than Prey, for example. Prey requires you to trash your cards all at once, so you couldn’t trash a single harbinger twice in that case. But heartbeat events are disjoint from each other, so there’s nothing stopping you from paying a harbinger to Heartbeat, and then circle back and do it again for the same damage source with the face down harbinger.
Yeah, a more concrete version would be Rolodex; if you trash Rolodex to Heartbeat, you’ll lose 3 cards off your stack after paying Heartbeat’s cost (and before future Heartbeat triggers). I dunno what you can do with that (Rolodex as a whole perplexes me), but the same would follow for the hypothetical Jub Jub.
Since we choose the Directives for Adam before drawing starting hands, if the runner player picks Find the Truth, shouldn’t the starting hand (or hands, in case of mulligan) also be revealed? Or are the installed cards not active at this point in the game?
[quote=Rules - Setup - page 5]1. Choose Sides: The players decide who will play as the
Runner and who will play as the Corporation. Then, each
player places his identity card faceup in his play area and
takes a corresponding deck.
2. Create Token Bank
3. Collect Starting Credits
4. Shuffle Decks
5. Draw Starting Hands: Each player draws five cards from
the top of his deck to form his starting hand. After drawing
starting hands, the Corporation may choose to take a
mulligan by shuffling his hand back into his deck and
then drawing a new starting hand. After the Corporation
decides whether to mulligan, the Runner decides whether to
mulligan as well.[/quote]
After digging, all I found was this, which is unhelpful, but a likely source of confusion:
This is likely why I thought it was ruled that directives are active before the draws (and probably what Jinteki based itself off of). However, it doesn’t make any statement about if they’re active.
It seems like a pretty “gotcha!” style ruling to say they come out that early, but aren’t actually active until the “game starts”. If that was the intention, I really wish he had the precognition to state that (and am not wholly convinced he doesn’t).
Jinteki doesn’t reveal the hand, which is why I asked since I remembered the choice timing ruling. I guess installed cards not being active is good enough of an explanation, though.
