"That's not a virtual resource" - The Apex Thread

[Myriad]

Yep. I don't think it will actually save you.

Gotta go for that janky hyperdriver apoc bookmark heartbeat play instead.

[cmcadvanced]

Book mark might not be so bad in apex since you could draw a lot of cards with quality time or something, and not have to trash them all because you are poor playing apex

[Myriad]

I agree bookmark is a pretty decent idea. Unfortunately it still doesn't solve the post apoc scorch problem, unless you have extra clicks.

With extra clicks its pretty amazing. It lets you avoid almost all scorch problems, bank the cards you need later (apoc, extra click effects and completely negates the effects of amped up).

Might be worth a look if we can figure out a solution to the click problem.

[cmcadvanced]

It's like they printed Apex to show us that digital cyberdemons, as powerful as they might think they are, struggle without friends. No all nighter, no Akshara Sareen, no Rachel Beckman, just a hog of an icebreaker, a 3 MU program and a dream to keep him alive. So he definitely needs some support in a later pack, so no chance of seeing him at worlds, as you'd have roughly as much fun and success as playing magic cards during the tournament. So he's definitely getting something down the line, unless you're just straight up not supposed to have good draw with him and only lucky Apex is wealthy. Which might just be reasonable, as his cards are fairly powerful as printed. If he had a reasonably consistent way of avoiding death after the apocalypse, he'd be at Noise like levels of "annoying oh my god fuckness"

So when does Apex get his Aesop and Cache?
Also, Aesop and Cache sounds like a dope band name.

[Taurean]

If he had a reasonably consistent way of avoiding death after the apocalypse, he'd be at Noise like levels of "annoying oh my god fuckness"

Surely all this requires is more clicks to reinstall Heartbeat/Carapace/whatever?

Non-resource cards that give you extra clicks:

Amped Up
Early Bird
Hyperdriver

Amped Up and Early Bird, are nice and cheap.

Edit: Removed Quianju suggestion because although it lets you avoid the tag, it also eats a click.

[Zeromus]

I always run Hyperdriver in Apex now. Love it. Solves a bunch of problems.

[cmcadvanced]

Qianju eats up a click though. Also, I never thought of early bird or amped up, but inf is hard to come by, and I abhor using amped up to combo with cards in hand. The keyword of course, is reasonable.

[Myriad]

I always run Hyperdriver in Apex

Whats your mem solution? Leprechaun? I love Hyperdriver and Endless Hunger, but seven mu is a tough pill for Apex.

[Zeromus]

No MU other than Heartbeat!

I don't install Endless Hunger until I'm ready to use it. I have my AI installed (Faust) for the heavy lifting. I can Clone Chip Endless Hunger if necessary. Or just use one of the Hyperdriver clicks to install it from my grip.

[razortoy]

Actually, you can trash bookmark to add cards to your hand rather than clicking, so you could do it prior to playing Apocalypse (and if your I've Had Worse's were either in hand, or there) it would put you at 5 cards post Apocalypse rather than 4 - which would mean you would survive assuming IHW triggered, since the first scorch, would leave you on 1 card, you'd draw 3 and be at 4. So bookmark would actually help out in that case.

[Myriad]

This is also assuming that you want to spend between 10 and 12 influence to play i've had worse and bookmark.

[Zeromus]

Paying influence for any other damage prevention cards in the faction that includes the best damage prevention card in the game is just silly.

[Ortho]

The problem is you can have amazing damage protection or you can have Apocalypse. I don't think you can have both unfortunately.

[Myriad]

I suppose that against Butchershop this isn't actually much of a problem. The stuff that stops you is pretty easy to deal with out of Apex.

But against glacier Apex has no major answer right now aside from Apocalypse.

Maybe that is the goal. Apoc is your answer against glacier, heartbeat answers butchershop.

And no answer for fast advance, yet.

[AndrewWest]

Isn't the answer to fast advance to play Legwork/Maker's Eye and maybe a Utopia Shard? Seems like those are good for Apex in general and best against FA?

Hyper-driver seems like a far more elegant and low influence solution to post-Apocalypse vulnerability then any bookmark/I've had worse shenanigans.

Since Apex seems best at lying in wait for the right moment to Apocalypse, why not use Data Folding? It's one of the few economy cards Apex can use and it's influence free.

If you are including hyper-driver anyway, has anyone tried Notoriety in Apex? Apex's low install cost rig means early point and hyper-driver+Apocalypse+notoriety seems like it could close out some games.

[Ortho]

What's your MU solution if you're running Hyperdriver? If you install lots of Dysons it seems like a waste given that they will promptly get turned over. MU is expensive and Apex doesn't have access to much money. And he needs to draw them too. You're talking some serious setup here for a one shot effect that you then don't have the influence to really take advantage of.

Do you have a list? How are you fitting Hyperdriver in?

[Myriad]

This is my problem as well. Because of the MU problem I was more tempted to just try bookmark and amped up as a convoluted way to either hammer heartbeat back down post apocalypse or if I am confident they aren't running flatline, then I could makers or legwork.

I also have been thinking a lot on the subject of endless hunger and I have gone back and forth on it. By itself it gets you through about 55ish pieces of ICE, but to get through the full 64 piece of ICE with ETR it needs back up, which requires either supplementary breakers or feedback implants.

Hunger also usually won't have enough stamina to survive more than a few runs before it gets taxed out, which is another problem. I suppose if you can create a board state with Apex where you are installing many 0/1 cost cards you would probably be okay.

But the memory is the problem and there is not a good solution at the moment aside from Dyson, Akamatsu or Q-Coherence. Akamatsu and Q-Coherence are probably the only two worth even mentioning and even then, Q is just bad as it will be self trashing when you start dipping into programs (so use it for Endless Hunger 1st maybe?).

Can't figure him out. Frustrated by Apex. But I am not going to worlds this year, so I will continue to try to figure him out in the off season.

[AndrewWest]

Q-coherence works for hyperdriver, although I'm not using it right now. You remove hyper from the game so it doesn't trigger Q's drawback, and you can eat them first before eating any harbingers.

My theoretical plan is to not install hunger until it is going to score me an agenda that turn or I'm going to apocalypse. Essentially clone chip is my MU solution. Pop hyper-driver then start running centrals and bring hunger in from clone chip when needed.

I haven't tested my list and I suspect I'll have trouble with certain ICE but what I've got so far is:

Infamous Apex

Apex: Invasive Predator

Event (18)
3x Apocalypse
3x Dirty Laundry
2x Infiltration
2x Legwork ••••
3x Notoriety •••
1x Prey
3x Sure Gamble
1x The Maker's Eye ••

Hardware (8)
3x Clone Chip ••••• •
2x e3 Feedback Implants ••••
3x Heartbeat

Resource (10)
3x Data Folding
3x Hunting Grounds
1x Utopia Shard •
3x Wasteland

Icebreaker (5)
3x Endless Hunger
2x Mimic ••

Program (4)
3x Harbinger
1x Hyperdriver •••

25 influence spent (max 25)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Data and Destiny

Deck built on http://netrunnerdb.com.

[Zeromus]

Unfortunately there are some pieces of ice that will simply keep you out with that list. Susanoo, stacked Turing...

[higgs_bozo]

Since Apex seems best at lying in wait for the right moment to Apocalypse, why not use Data Folding? It's one of the few economy cards Apex can use and it's influence free.

How long do you lie in wait? Data Folding takes 4 turns to break even, 7 to be an Easy Mark. My thought is that I want to be Apoc'ing or otherwise using Endless Hunger before 7 turns.