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The Geist Zeitgeist


#1464

I was going to say that Medium and The Source are useful tools vs. NEH and potentially Asset Spam as well, but the Asset Spam matchup is very hard on Criminals right now. Not sure there’s an easy answer here.


#1465

Asset spam seems harder on geist that on other criminals (took perfumeshop gabe to my last GNK and steamrolled both IG players, including the eventual winner) - trouble is, against other decks (glacier) other criminals are floundering while geist keeps getting and better (in the same GNK gabe had to scoop to palana when double batty hit corroder and eater in the same run - even outside of edge cases like this it’s a near impossible matchup).

That said, pol op and councilman are great tech that have the potential to tip an asset-based win condition at a critical moment (especially IG decks hoping to combo you out rather than waiting for the 1000 cuts to work).


#1466

I think Geist is the first Crim who really shines without an open server.

Andysucker makes it very hard to close a server for value, and Leela can get away with some level of resource economy instead of relying on Sec Testing, but both can really struggle if the centrals get locked up cheaply and there’s no open remote, and Gabe is in trouble after the early game. Asset spam can really overwhelm all the Criminals, as unless you can control the board, a ton of Criminal cards just stop working (what’s the point of Inside Job, Mongoose, Account Siphon, Crescentus, Shutdown, B&E etc. if the corp can stack a ton of ice and has a ton of money thanks to their assets?).

I’ve been trying to run a ton of Scrubbers in my Crim builds, just to see if that can help even things out.

And honestly, nobody is even trying to build to control the board. People just play Whizzard, so nobody has worked it out.


#1467

https://netrunnerdb.com/en/deck/view/655160

Get to the Hoppah

Armand “Geist” Walker: Tech Lord (The Underway)

Event (7)
3x Account Siphon (Core Set)
2x Legwork (Honor and Profit)
1x Levy AR Lab Access (Creation and Control) [color=#32CD32]•••[/color]
1x Special Order (Core Set)

Hardware (11)
3x Desperado (Core Set) [color=#4169E1]☆☆☆[/color]
2x Sports Hopper (Salsette Island)
6x Spy Camera (Democracy and Dogma)

Resource (19)
3x Decoy (Core Set)
3x Fall Guy (Double Time)
3x Off-Campus Apartment (Breaker Bay) [color=#FF4500]•••[/color]
2x Political Operative (Democracy and Dogma)
3x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)
2x Street Peddler (The Underway) [color=#FF4500]••[/color]
3x Tech Trader (Business First)

Icebreaker (6)
1x Corroder (Core Set) [color=#FF4500]••[/color]
2x Faerie (Future Proof)
1x Femme Fatale (Core Set)
1x Mongoose (Kala Ghoda)
1x ZU.13 Key Master (What Lies Ahead) [color=#32CD32]••[/color]

Program (2)
2x Crescentus (A Study in Static)
12 influence spent (max 15-3☆=12)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Salsette Island

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

This is what I am testing right now would love some feedback


#1468

I wish there were some way to leverage the link from the Hopper; feels like the B&E would be so nice here but… ugh, 9 more cards :slight_smile:


#1469

Seems bad vs. IG


#1470

The only thing I don’t like about this is the chance that two of your breakers are on Peddler.


#1471

Ok someone explain the hostage > peddler interaction to me one more time, as im struggling with it. Dont you declare the connection you tutoring for when you play hostage? So you cant look at the top 3 cards and then decide on a peddler?

Also, tried to put together a list with some explicit NEH tech. The IG matchup i think is ok with this list as well, but as with any blue deck vs IG you need to land, and keep landing, early siphons and smash remotes. Hive vs breach is ok, if you can keep your econ together. Komainu vs mongoose is a joke tbh, no contest there. Crick is a problem though, so time archives runs.

geist.reflection

Armand “Geist” Walker: Tech Lord (The Underway)

Event (7)

Hardware (3)

Resource (18)

Icebreaker (13)

Program (4)

15 influence spent (max 15)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Democracy and Dogma

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.


#1472

Just follow exactly what the cards say + cascading triggers.

  1. Play hostage, look at your stack, without changing the order, choose a card to add to Grip and install if you want to. Since you are looking at your Stack you know the top 3 cards
  2. When Peddler is installed cascade itno host the top 3 cards from your Stack, you know what those cards are, you might chose another connection in case you don’t want those cards to be hosted on a Peddler or chose not to install Peddler, only draw it to Grip
  3. If you have an OCA you can choose to host Peddler on it, which cascades into OCA draw before the 3 cards are hosted, so you’d host cards 2-4 from Stack on Peddler as you draw card 1 through OCA
  4. Shuffle your Stack

Quite simple really


#1473

Ok so the triggers arent what im struggling with, i thought id made it clear in my question what exactly i was confused about but apologies if not.

I was wondering if you had to declare the connection your tutoring for when you play hostage? Or if you can just play hostage, look at the top 3 cards then decide on peddler.

Edit: ah ok so reading your post again i think you did actually answer my question, sorry - you look at the top 3 cards, then decide to install peddler if you want them or just shuffle and keep peddler in hand, right?


#1474

It doesn’t say that on the card, so nope.

Or just fetch another hostage target instead of Peddler.


#1476

Ok so that was more i was understanding/hoping it works. Thanks :slight_smile: Shame this kind of behaviour isnt coded into jnet.


#1477

It’s pretty new that people have been using it. (Thank you, Mumbad City Hall/Heritage Committee.)


#1478

Yeah actually jnet gives you the ability to look at your deck, so you can fire hostage and look at your deck at the same time, then declare the connection. This is sweeeeeeeet.


#1479

It actually came up at least when OCA came out, that it was “stupid/broken”, Jnet was not as big back then.

Yeah, Heritage is insanely good with MCH and Museums to use it infinitely, would be an extremely strong combination even without Bioethics lock or similar.

But I digress, yes it is useful to be able to see what will happen if you Peddler/Peddler OCA before you choose to actually do it :slight_smile:


#1480

Just put up the most recent version of my Geist. Still having a lot of success, in particular against glacier, but it’s holding its own against FA and rush (especially now I’ve added two special orders; I did have SMC too, but it felt a little overkill).

https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/34492/edinburgh-geist

Edinburgh Geist

Armand “Geist” Walker: Tech Lord (The Underway)

Event (12)
2x Account Siphon (Core Set)
3x Hostage (Opening Moves)
2x Inside Job (Core Set)
1x Legwork (Honor and Profit)
1x Levy AR Lab Access (Creation and Control) [color=#32CD32]•••[/color]
2x Special Order (Core Set)
1x The Maker’s Eye (Core Set) [color=#32CD32]••[/color]

Hardware (9)
1x Clone Chip (Creation and Control) [color=#32CD32]☆ ••[/color]
2x Forger (The Underway)
6x Spy Camera (Democracy and Dogma)

Resource (15)
3x Fall Guy (Double Time)
1x Film Critic (Old Hollywood) [color=#32CD32]•[/color]
2x Political Operative (Democracy and Dogma)
2x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)
3x Tech Trader (Business First)
3x Technical Writer (Data and Destiny)
1x The Source (Creation and Control) [color=#708090]••[/color]

Icebreaker (8)
2x Cerberus “Rex” H2 (All That Remains)
2x Corroder (Core Set) [color=#FF4500]••••[/color]
2x Faerie (Future Proof)
2x Mongoose (Kala Ghoda)

Program (2)
2x Crescentus (A Study in Static)
14 influence spent (max 15-1☆=14)
46 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Democracy and Dogma

Decklist published on NetrunnerDB.

I’m still at 46 cards, and was sad to drop from 3 to get there (nearly as sad as I was to drop the Cortez chips!). The Source and Film Critic have both been absolute stars. Hostaging in early against FA decks really slows them down, and you can protect with Fall Guy (lots of NBN FA decks simply don’t have a plan to score past it). It’s also a real nice play the turn after the corp IAA, forcing them into a situation where they give you at least another turn to try and steal it.

Forger too has been brilliant, even if it’s just making the Siphons a little more nasty (having 2 more clicks the turn you Siphon and an extra 5 creds is REAL nice).


#1481

I too am on a package of (was)2 hostage with Source and FC now. I felt like my glacier MU was so good on its own that the only thing holding me back is NEH FA, which prints wins vs normal geist. I have mine structured for speed, not a fan of the spycams, if you want to draw some inspiration/thoughts, heres my list:

https://netrunnerdb.com/en/deck/view/656310

Heavy duty changes over previous iterations, but you’re only doing 1 drug dealer, 2 is for finding it. Calling in Favors helps get over the hump if you’re too hot on drugs and not enough on making cash, the bank jobs help too, esp in the asset spam meta. Not great vs IG, but hopefully the anarchs drive that shit out.

Wants: Drive byx1, Inside Jobx1, 1 more Calling in Favors and possibly cutting zu for Street peddler + something, its so good. Zu is def sketchy.

edit: I had dr. lovegood in over the zu at one point, shuts off Drugs and The source when you don’t want it(giving you 2 cards to pull that have good utility on their own without source), and it can be hostaged for too. Maybe -1 zu +1 DLG +1 peddler, yolo 46)


#1482

won (a relatively small) store champ with this list and a Jeeves list i pulled from the Jeeves thread

Run and find out

Armand “Geist” Walker: Tech Lord (The Underway)

Event (8)
3x Account Siphon (Core Set)
2x Legwork (Honor and Profit)
1x Levy AR Lab Access (Creation and Control) [color=#32CD32]•••[/color]
2x The Maker’s Eye (Core Set) [color=#32CD32]••••[/color]

Hardware (7)
2x Clone Chip (Creation and Control) [color=#32CD32]☆☆ ••••[/color]
3x Forger (The Underway)
2x Sports Hopper (Salsette Island)

Resource (16)
3x Bank Job (Core Set)
3x Fall Guy (Double Time)
2x Political Operative (Democracy and Dogma)
2x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)
3x Tech Trader (Business First)
3x Technical Writer (Data and Destiny)

Icebreaker (12)
1x Corroder (Core Set) [color=#FF4500]••[/color]
3x Crowbar (Chrome City)
1x Mongoose (Kala Ghoda)
1x Peacock (What Lies Ahead)
3x Shiv (The Underway)
3x Spike (The Valley)

Program (2)
2x Crescentus (A Study in Static)
13 influence spent (max 15-2☆=13)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Salsette Island

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

it went 5-1, only losing to a Blue Sun rush deck that managed to get all three oversight on an Orion in the first few turns and locked a lot of things down with Tollbooths and Assassins

i made a mistake of dumping a Political Operative, which i could have used to trash the Public Support (instead of hitting the Orion, 2 Tollbooths, and Ash trace), but i filled my hand and dumped it, thinking it wasn’t going to matter. that said, i was only on 2 points i think by that point anyway. it likely would have just delayed the inevitable

yes, i played some fast advance. Bank Job and running with Legwork / Maker’s Eye helped me secure the win before they did. i like the idea of The Source and Film Critic, but NEH Fastro isn’t as common in my meta, and there’s a lot of glacier

anyway, so MVP of the day i think was Sports Hopper. like Tech Trader, i knew it would be good, but didn’t quite know until i actually played with it. 3c for 3 cards is a terrible deal, and for Geist, 3 for 4 still isn’t that great of a deal, but providing link to let you clear tags with Forger and keep cloud is really nice, and when you can charge up Technical Writer(s) on the install and get paid with Tech Trader when you crash your hopper, it’s insane value. i might even go up to 3. i was always happy to see it.

looking forward, i’m thinking of transitioning to Reflection (2x Reflection, 3x Sports Hopper maybe), and with that, i’d have a little extra room for Sneakdoor Beta, which will work really well with Turning Wheel (which would also charge up on Siphon runs). i’d definitely drop the Legworks at that point, but I’m unsure how much of an impact Turning Wheel will make. i might put in one HQ Interface or just stick with the Turning Wheels

Maker’s Eye still seems like a solid investment, but i’d probably drop down to 1

Political Operative is hard to know at this point. i think its existence is going to help shift how people play Jackson. i played against someone who forgot about what they can do, and drew up a lot with Jackson, pitched agendas, and let me trash him next turn and run on an entirely open archives for 4 points. similarly, i wanted to try out Councilman, but ended up cutting it entirely

i haven’t played much in the past two months or so, so i have a lot of testing to do. this list did well, but i’m sure it can be a lot better


#1483

I like this list a lot. Mine is -2 TME, -3 Bank Job, +3 Street Peddler, +1 Employee Strike, +1 Mongoose. The lack of R&D pressure hurts my list, I think yours is an improvement.

Political Operative is very strong, I like it for taking out Jackson as you said, but I would point out that one can run HQ, install Pol Op and fire it before the corp has a paid ability window. Sometimes, particularly early in a game, the corp won’t rez ICE or Crisium Grid against a criminal over a single-access run, enabling the Jackson trash. There are many other good targets for the Pol Op as well.

If Pol Op has a weakness in my experience, it has been my own limited credit pool. I can usually get good money by the late game, but I am usually pretty lean early or mid game. I can see the Bank Jobs helping a lot in the current meta.

Do you trash the Sports Hopper often? I had used Crash Space for meat damage protection and tag removal (an extra 2c from Siphon is nice). I’m thinking of going back and using something else for link. I agree that the 3c for the card draw doesn’t often feel like a great deal.


#1484

i really want to include an Employee Strike. i am just unsure how to fit it in and will probably have to wait for Turning Wheel to help clear deck slots and influence. i think ES would help so much against so many problematic lists for Geist, like Palana and especially Blue Sun, like the one that wrecked me

[quote=“BubbaTheGoat, post:1483, topic:4242”]
Political Operative is very strong, I like it for taking out Jackson as you said, but I would point out that one can run HQ, install Pol Op and fire it before the corp has a paid ability window. Sometimes, particularly early in a game, the corp won’t rez ICE or Crisium Grid against a criminal over a single-access run, enabling the Jackson trash. There are many other good targets for the Pol Op as well.
[/quote]yeah, i believe it. i love that i get an effective discount and a card out of it as well, plus not having to run the scoring remote is nice, which is sometimes more heavily defended than HQ (even against Criminal)

i’ve just been out of the game for a while, and my only games with it were over the weekend so haven’t had a lot of experience with it yet. definitely not taking them out though

i had an earlier version with Dirty Laundry and/or Easy Mark for a quick burst of credits so i could keep going. i was running Bank Jobs as well in that list, but i wanted a backup for when i got low. it wasn’t really that useful in the end, because i’d often click for some credits, install Bank Job, play Dirty Laundry, have a lot of money, and no clicks for the rest of the turn to do anything else. it also didn’t really occur to me at the time how Tech Trader pays during a run, so i can start a run without (m)any credits at all

one thing i changed with my strategy over the course of the day was almost never clicking for credits if i had anything on Technical Writer because i realised i’d have just been moving that credit around anyway. sometimes i’d install down to 0 credits to charge up technical writer, but i’d always trash it once that happened instead of clicking for credits, installing again, then using Technical Writer. i know that even if you have 2-3 of them out, it’s good value, but it’s slower than just hitting the TW to get credits now, then install anything else, and making a run. Tech Traders are great ways to make money during a run as well, so actually having a click left for that run is pretty important imo

i also tend to spike quite a lot. i’ll get really low sometimes, even on 0 credits, during the mid or even late game, and in that same turn, surge up to 10, 15, or more; Bank Job definitely helps with that. and its normal weakness of having to pay money to get through ICE cutting into your profits isn’t a problem with Tech Trader / B&E. starting a run with 0 credits and ending the run with more credits than i started with, plus an extra 8c from Bank Job is an amazing feeling

there were many games where i would immediately install and trash or install and trash at the beginning of my very next turn. a few times i would install it so i could use Forger and not trigger it until i drew another one (or i was at 4 or less MU without cloud)

i didn’t play against any scorch decks, and the only deck trying to flatline me was a Grail Foundry, and for that match, i just made sure i had my breakers out
but against a deck where i’m expecting Scorch, i’d definitely just leave it out on the table to help protect against the possible Midseasons or SEA Source trace and as a getaway car to help survive the second Scorch. there’s Levy in the deck anyway, so i’m not as worried about pitching cards. plus there’s Clone Chip and Same Old Thing for events and programs i really want (plus more card draws and money from using them anyway)

i was using Crash Space as well but didn’t find it as useful. i don’t Siphon every game. or at least, i don’t actually steal credits every game because getting the corp low from rezzing cards during a Siphon run is sometimes enough

also, with Sports Hopper, i’m able to use Forger more often to clear tags, which is a better value than Crash Space anyway, since Tech Traders are always happy to buy your old useless console, and Geist’s ability gives you another card, plus you charge up any Technical Writers you have out when you install them. before Sports Hopper, i could only clear tags if i had less than 4 native MU of programs out or ran something like Access to Globalsec to keep cloud up and running, which was the whole reason i was running Crash Space to begin with. with Sports Hopper and Forger, i don’t see any reason for Crash Space