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The mystery of Wu


#27

Is it a problem that a combo deck exists? Is it crushing every tournament? The cold ones style build (by which I mean: a combo deck designed for one big Apocalypse turn followed by three Encore turns to close out the game) is about as fragile as it always was. I haven’t seen Wu win a SC yet, though someone took down a 9-person GNK with her[1]. Know The Meta has Wu performing normally (same proportion played as top 30%[2]) while Adam massively over-performed in the same time period.

I just don’t see a problem with Origami & Wu. It’s great to have combo decks if they’re an appropriate power level. I like a diversity of strategies rather than everyone looking for the highest power level cards to stuff into their mid-range deck.

[1] https://alwaysberunning.net/tournaments/1210/starlit-citadel-gnk-feb
[2] http://www.knowthemeta.com/DPStats/Down%20the%20White%20Nile/#compare


#28

As you say, it’s as fragile as it always was. Slots are very tight, and Corps that disrupt the runner with enough damage or score out fast enough should beat it. Kakugo is problematic, forcing them to drop Guru Davinder pre-Apoc. Best Defense can disrupt it (hitting Origami), or at least burns a Clone Chip. The deck rarely contests assets, or even remotes in general. Depending on their tech various decks have outs, like Skorpios Batty breaker RFG (on a central) unless they bring SacCon. Brain Rewiring can get value out of just firing damage randomly.


#29

No. However a mechanic which incentivises a runner to stay at home and build a combo fits poorly on a runner called “thrillseeker.” The mechanic also has nothing to do with the theme of the rest of her cards which seems to care about the number of ICE on a server.

That said, history shows that you don’t want repeatable card tutors in a LCG/CCG because card players, like evolution, will find a way to break it. (For what it’s worth, I think Wu is a hint that Creation and Control is going to rotate out.)


#30

Not sure they want to replace C&C with a whole new box then.
If it rotates out, maybe it would be the same thing with the coreset : remove cards they don’t like and put Genesis/Spin/Lunar cards there.
(I don’t know for yourself but for me Lunar rotating out feels like yesterday)


#31

So, nobody for Wu Revoir ?


#32

Lunar hasn’t rotated.


#33

To clarify, 7-10 monthes or something before 2nd rotation, yup. This one should involve either Lunar, or Lunar + Sansan, I don’t remember well.
If C&C is rotating - that’s what we were talking about - then I think it’s gonna be in that batch.


#34

I’m trying to work on a different approach to Wu. I feel like this deck has some merit but it’s missing something. Any input would be great.

Big Rig Wu

Kabonesa Wu: Netspace Thrillseeker (Down the White Nile)

Event (14)

Hardware (6)

Resource (6)

Icebreaker (4)

Program (15)

15 influence spent (max 15, available 0)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Down the White Nile

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

The deck typically plays in the following order of phases:
(1) Start up: Get burst money, then use Wu’s ability to tutor out SMCs and install 2x Sahasrara and 1x Multithreader. This is a really powerful economy engine for most of the game.
(2) Expand setup: You’re sitting at 1 MU, so get out Mirror and/or Leprechaun to increase your ability to add more programs to your rig.
(3) Final board: Get out Maven and/or combination of standard breakers. You want to be searching for the rest of your Multithreaders, which will let you have a ton of money for breaking each turn.

Against decks that do not run fast advance options, Clone Chip lets you recur Tapwrm to keep it on the table. SacCon primarily does the same thing, but pulls double duty against Skorpios and also allows you to keep Clot on the table when needed.

Once you can threaten Clot, you can use Peace or Day Job to get more money and stall a bit. Use Maker’s Eye every few turns to dig into R&D, and snipe other agendas from HQ.

Strengths:
– Utility rig really lets you mitigate costs for installing or using programs
– Multithreader can be used to pay for SMC, Misdirection, or add power counters to Study Guide on turns you don’t run
– Powerful late game (typical of most big-rig Shaper)
– High degree of consistency
– Can afford to run more aggressively on high-impact runs than some other Shapers, especially to close out a scoring window
– Wu allows you to pull out and use Misdirection with 3 clicks in a pinch, great against NBN or tag-and-bag Weyland

Weaknesses:
– Lots of installing, so can be caught off guard by damage/kill decks
– Runs through the stack quickly in many games. PU will be a very poor matchup.
– Burst economy cards require turn 1 (Peace) or 4 clicks (Day Job). With Beth out, you can Day Job and still run if they are at 15+ credits, which can catch some people off guard.
– No current. Could really use 1-2 Interdiction to counter Batty, NGO Front, and Ash


#35

How much do you need Day Job AND Peace in our Time?

You can cut one or the other (day job maybe) and replace it with stimhack to install some of your programs or to boost study guide to the required strenght. Also I would consider Cyberdelia instead of Mirror (even if they serve a similar function, cyberdelias stack togheter).

Other than that It seems like a nice shell


#36

Eh, I’m not in love with Day Job, so I’m definitely open to suggestions. But I do think it helps more with Wu’s setup in this build than Stimhack, especially in a meta where HHN and Economic Warfare are prevalent. Having all 6 of those cards should increase the chance of finding one in your starting hand. A compromise might be to drop 1-2 Day Job for Stimhack, I’ll have to play around with it.

I’m not sure Mirror is the right choice for a console but I do like that it gives you both MU right when you install the first, which helps with setup a bit. I wonder if the credit gain from Cyberdelia would add up enough to make it worth it.


#37

I’d like Dhegdheer over Leprechaun in your build. You only have SMC and Maven at more than 1 MU, so most often you’re not getting any additional bonus MU from Leprechuan, but the fact that you can install Dhegdheer at full MU (and the discount) makes it much easier to use.


#38

lol, I still have no idea. I’ve played against it three times (using Jinja Asa) and it was a Set-Up race where Jinja was just that much faster.

Either way,I am still curious about how all this comes together :slight_smile:


#39

After playing around with my big rig deck, I found myself making a completely different version. Mine just seemed too slow, and really struggled against most rush decks and asset spam.

This version seems way more efficient and won more games on casual Jinteki. It lost several games to Punitive Counterstrike, and will very likely have a horrible PU matchup. But it has very solid R&D and HQ multi access with many options to secure the remote. Turns out real credits are better than recurring credits.

Wu Rush

Kabonesa Wu: Netspace Thrillseeker (Down the White Nile)

Event (16)

Hardware (6)

Resource (11)

Icebreaker (4)

Program (8)

15 influence spent (max 15, available 0)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Down the White Nile

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

Still have mixed feelings about Clone Chip. It feels so good to have it back in my Shaper deck, i didn’t realize how much I missed it. But the lack of Film Critic is very noticeable in this meta.

If I were to drop 3x Clone Chip for 2x Film Critic, what tech card would you add? Maybe 1x The Shadow Net? Feedback Filter? Biometric Spoofing?


#40

If you are dropping 3 clone chips I would consider the following changes:

since you have Equivocation, RNG Key seems like an auto-include. Or you can play Scavenge, at least until Reclaim (the ‘new’ version of Clone Chip) will be released in Kampala Ascendant. Scavenge also has a good sinergy withAtman…and Femme, which I think you should play isntead of Hunting Grounds (you have only 1 and you cannot tutor it, while you can SMC + Stimhack the femme and scavenge it).

So my proposed changes are:

-3 cc, -1 Hunting Grounds, +2 FC, +1 Scavenge/RNG Key, +1 Femme


#41

I must admit that I don’t like high cost resources without Career fair these days. The tempo hit in Wu is terrible. I started counting the number of uses of ProCo after I installed and I think the most I got out of it was 8.

I was playing with clone chip but in three games never used it. Partly I got paranoid about ark lockdown and of course one of the games was against Skorpios. I got one use out of a scavenge.

Breaker wise, Brahman and D4vid is hilarious (ditto Lady) but I realised I was getting into a loop where I was just endlessly stacking and recurring programs (Misdirection is handy Brahman fodder) and hardly ever getting to draw into my deck.

So I don’t know what to try next. It feels like you either have to go for a combo deck where you spend your first two turns spamming your SMCs then get on with the rest of the game, or you need to focus on drawing your key events and resources confident that you can pick up your programs when you need them. That second approach seems to suit clone chip and scavenge because you are more likely to download a program without using a SMC. E.g. downloading a D4vid while you have Scavenge or Brahman on the board. I saw someone posted a Wu deck with Maxwell James and Mining Accident which looks fun; SMC loves Bad Publicity.


#42

I tend to lean a lot more heavily on ProCon for setup and draw. I find that when you start with Sure Gamble or Peace, installing an early ProCon is huge. I tend to use it twice per turn in most games. I think you can afford the time to do that because you save so much setup time from being able to use Wu’s ability to get your rig up quickly.

I think if I had more event based economy, I could play more aggressively with Laguna Velasco District, but ProCon feels pretty good.

I haven’t really explored the D4v1d + Brahman combo but might look into that too. I think that’s a different rig though, because I would ideally want Chameleon and Sahasrara in the mix too.


#43

I like the idea of Femme, but Hunting Grounds is so good right now!

RNG Key is good but I think without Find the Truth, you are neutering Equivocation to use it just for an extra 3c or 2 cards per turn.

So far I decided I will try -3 Clone Chip, +2 Film Critic, and +1 The Shadow Net. I might try Artist Colony instead of Shadow Net though. That would let me pull out Clot in a pinch, grab SacCon to keep Clot or Tapwrm on the table, or tutor for Hunting Grounds or other tech cards. Shadow Net would mostly be for more aggressive digs on R&D, burst economy, or replaying Stimhack in a pinch.


#44

I wouldn’t mind some feedback on this list. I saw @Nemamiah I believe play something similar out of Hayley and decided to give it a go. I thought the Wu synergy with Grappling Hook was something worth exploring, so I converted it into this.

Green Giest

Kabonesa Wu: Netspace Thrillseeker

Event (13)
3x Deep Data Mining
3x Diesel
1x Information Sifting ●●●
1x Interdiction
2x Levy AR Lab Access :unicorn:
3x Sure Gamble

Hardware (2)
2x Astrolabe

Resource (21)
1x Beth Kilrain-Chang
3x Daily Casts
3x Kongamato
3x Professional Contacts
1x Sacrificial Construct
3x Same Old Thing
3x Street Peddler ●●●
3x Tech Trader ●●●
1x The Shadow Net

Icebreaker (2)
1x Inti
1x Savant

Program (7)
1x Dhegdheer
3x Grappling Hook ●●●●● ●
3x Self-modifying Code

15 influence spent (max 15, available 0)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Down the White Nile

Maybe I haven’t tested it out enough yet, but it feels a little too fragile at the moment. And I never know whether or not ProCon is better then Laguna. I never play Shaper, so I’m out of my element.


#45

For those of you running something other than Film Critic, Imp is a handy substitute, particularly if you’re running 3x Scavenge.


#46

Oops, liked that post too fast : you can’t tutor Imp with Wu unfortunately (virus) :confused:

This means you have to tutor SMC to instal Imp for 4c, so “sacrificing” a SMC like that means Imp is one of the main strength of your deck (this left 2 for other stuff)

Main problem of Wu after toying with the ID a little is draw/MU/multi-access/money : pick 2.5

I tried Au Revoir with Sec Nexus / Rabbit Hole / Underworld Contract, this is a faster set Sunny at 45 cards, but with huge problems of multi-access :confused: