How about a functional errata to make the trash ability a click, trash ability?
I think they generally try to keep functional errata to a minimum, otherwise there’s a ton of cards they could fix. MWL 3 should be plenty to hit Moon.
Personally, I think that, while Estelle Moon is overpowered, she can’t compare to Sensie. You lost games to turn 1 Sensie while Estelle requiers more cards, more setup and can played around.
For me they are not at all comparable.
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While it’s tempting to do such things, remember that Netrunner is not an entirely virtual game where you can instantly change the text of everyone’s cards to the more balanced/fixed version of the card.
I haven’t had anyone try it yet, but I’m still not looking forward to explaining that you can’t have two Museums or two Wireless Net Pavilions out… We do want new people to come into the game, and every time something like this happens, it will hurt the ability to gain new players. (Not prevent, mind, just that functional errata is a real headspace cost that needs to be paid. It’s not fun trying to keep up with which cards are changed and how.)
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MWL is fine though : any change is centralized there.
I think MWL 1 to either Friends or Estelle is enough. The deck is strong, but not totally dominating, also it is not oppressive and games against it are full of interesting choices if your runner is prepared.
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Friends is minimum tier 2. It got +4 click advantage over interns, and its slot effective ratio is time 2. This doesn’t cost 2c + 0-1 inf, especially with 0 inf Jackson NEH @ 17 native inf, which means that card cost the same to HB or NBN, resulting in huge insensitive to put both.
Terminal should be count as nothing in the balance. It is just a safety belt for combos.
I don’t know why the inf scale got derailed lately but inf priced by clic adv is not a valid scale anymore. This is loose, inf is priced super fancy (as in “I want you to play this” instead of solving problems factions ever had or slightly (not widely) opening doors ever closed to factions.
Moon should be took care of at the rotation because of copper bullets rotating out (mainly whizzard). T1 would be fair if HB needed inf (they are not), so T2.
Moon is win-win by all means for a faction with native 0c kill-on-sight assets like HB. It should have been Jinteki or even NBN (Sansan costing 6 to rez).
And if devs reads this, please solve sloting for adv trap decks. A huge part of ANR never been looked at because of design problems (low R&D resistance and sloting, snowballing into more low R&D resistance).
This could be solved giving adv traps being also bread & butter corp cards, like econ, ice or agendas (with for exemple clic adv of a beanstalk, not of hedge fund).
There is 6 adv traps in the game right now.
For what it’s worth, I think Moon should probably be tier 1.
It’s true that Moon is a big accelerator for horizontal decks, but its power level is probably closer to Mumbad City Hall (for which I’m actually not sure tier 1 is quite enough to be honest) than SAU. Moon did help enable the new CI monstrosity, but I’d rather see violet and ultraviolet level clearances both tier 1’d or tier 2’d than to totally slam the door on Moon.
As far as FIHP, I find it a little harder to evaluate. It’s not in sifr or SAU territory, but it’s pretty oppressive and clearly needs intervention. I wouldn’t mind seeing it be limit: 1 per deck with no influence change like astro. It probably wouldn’t be bad as a one-of, it’s playing against three of them with Jackson repeatedly shuffling them back and CSM recurring them that makes it so ridiculous and snowballs the board state so hard.
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After more time to play and reflect, I don’t think tier 1 is good enough for Moon after all. She’s become a must-include in every horizontal deck regardless of faction because of the way she makes the game spiral out of control if the runner can’t contest her. So many games become blowouts as early as the second turn if she accumulates more than 2 power counters.
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Why is the answer to the asset spam problem to neuter asset spam? Instead of tearing down what is one of the few viable ways for the Corp to win, couldn’t the hivemind find a way to make servers good again? Many players complain about all this “NotRunner”, but if we look at all the deck types being played by the Corp right now, they all have one thing in common. Nobody wants to leave anything in a server at the end of the turn if they can help it. Fast Advance gets the agenda in and out in one turn so it doesn’t sit there at the end of the turn. Combo can set up a Fast Advance plan, or they kill their opponent so agenda points don’t matter. Asset spam leverages accesses by making it a shell game.
Instead of “how do we kill asset spam”, perhaps you should be asking “why don’t Corp players want to leave something in a server at the end of the turn”. It’s likely because ice is Swiss cheese and protective upgrades are garbage compared to what they used to be. If we made other decks more viable, people would likely start playing them. If you just take away asset spam, you take away options for the Corp. With rotation, combo may take a serious hit, so the Corp’s options will be even more limited. Come rotation, we’ll be back at the beginning where the game started with people complaining that all the Corp plays is Fast Advance because ice server play doesn’t work.
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Uh asset spam doesn’t aim to win via shell game? They’re either trying to grind out the runner with prison plays, or out tempo them and win with ice and FA that the runner just can’t afford to stop.
‘the hivemind’ knows the problem with ice, but better ice and defenses will just help asset spam as well if they’re strong enough to play. Hence we either wait for ffg to print counters (a dubious proposition based on past actions) or ask for asset spam cards to be weakened.
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Oh my god. I haven’t really played since store champs this year and I’ve barely kept an eye on new cards. How did Estelle Moon get printed/make it through playtesting? The tempo on her is ridiculous; it’s like Turtlebacks took some steroids, hit the gym, and then evolved Pokemon-style. I don’t even need to see the meta to know this card needs to be on MWL 3; she’s not even close to the power level of similar cards (and she contributes to a playstyle that has been generally OP and widely loathed for over a year now).
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Ice is not Swiss cheese right now. Chiyashi would like a word with you. I would recommend not bringing your AI to the conversation.
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The answer to this question, and many more (including Temujin and Sifr) is FFGs playtesting cycle.
I am not a playtester, but the process has been described to by people who I know to be playtesters. I’m fuzzy on the details, but 1 feature seems to be quite clear by all accounts: FFG changes balance on cards after playtesting without taking further feedback from the players.
I suspect that the internal playtest group checks the ‘final’ numbers, but that group seems less likely to catch things (e.g. like the need for non-virus restrictions, or that NEXT Design is bad).
But the answer to most balance questions falls in that process.
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This so much!
I have been playing a lot of moon at the moment. It has ice (although not many) and the ice is SUPER important. What’s more, because it has so few ice, every ice that it does have are some of the very best ice in the game. Fairchild 3.0, Architect, Vanilla. In its own way, printing high quality ice actually helps asset spam over glacier, as a higher percentage of their ice will be the highest quality stuff.
This is when Ice Melt Whizzard happens.
The meta is really not an enigma.
I think big big problem with her is that she can be popped at paid ability speed. Therefore, the Corp can build up a couple of counters, make the runner spend money getting past the ICE in front of her and then just pop her for money and cards. It is lose-lose for the runner.
If her ability was “At the start of your turn…” or even like Advanced Assembly Lines and could not use it during a run it would be a bit better. Still above the power curve, but better.
or click: trash
From a mathematical/efficiency standpoint, Estelle is just busted. She turns 1 click (install) into 3 clicks (card, credit, credit).
If you count like that, she’s 2 clic less good than a Hedge Fund or 1 less than a BeanStalk then ?
You forgot cards from the 2 installs and the run she baits.