Let me put it in another way, the most “standard” econ engine in a runner deck could be, for example, 3 dirty laundry, 3 sure gamble, 3 daily cast, 3 random ones (lets say career fair…) these are 12 slots for a total of 45 credit gain, well, temujin credit value is 16, so, with 3 temujin slots you are generating a total of 48 credits, (with only 3 slots, you gain more than with an entire eco engine of an standard deck!), I know that the ratio/click credit is also important, but doubling the economic power of a deck by just including 3 cards is just insane…
Please don’t tell me that 3 armitage are 33 credits, or Mopus is infinite, because the ratio of credits/click drops insanely, Temujin gives a ratio credits/click equal to sure gamble, which is probably one of the best burst economy options (and you also make a run in the same click…).
What i want to say is that ratio click/value matters, but raw power is also very important, just look at Blue Moose, a daily cast ratio, but a totally unbalanced raw power.
EDIT: I also think that the real problem with Account Siphon is the tremendous recursion efficiency this game has and also when tags doesn’t matter or they are even good in your deck (aaron, tag me decks, counter surevillance, dlr, obelus etc…)
Just let Temujin die and hope for some more interesting and fair runner econ.No matter how many argument they made about Temujin,it doesn’t change the slightest fact that it’s just a damn busted card.
If Temujin could only target servers with ICE it would be fair. I just wanna get paid for making runs…isn’t that what Crim is all about?
IMO the real problem is the in-faction breadth of breakers, draw, and multiaccess/teeth in Anarch and Shaper. Combined with tons of good neutral economy cards, those factions have too much free influence to splash on Crim’s most quintessential cards. The problem with Crim’s cards is that they take other faction builds from strong to OP.
I agree that in-faction breakers are a big problem for criminals.
Supposedly, criminals are the killer faction, but I find it really hard to make any argument for a criminal killer that is better than Nanotek or Mimic.
I feel that HQ multi-access is really strong, and I think Criminal is in a good place there. The added archives pressure from the occasional Sneakdoor Beta is also strong.
The lack of draw is a long-standing problem for criminal. FIS can work in some decks, but it is almost always a situational draw option. I don’t see Exclusive party as a viable option either. Even when Temujin was popular, Drug Dealer didn’t really make it into a lot of decks, despite being consistent draw.
Maybe more credits would help, some big econ card to help replace Temujin and desperado that can’t easily be splashed and isn’t over powered can help get criminal back on track (click-erado would be a good start).
Hopefully we will see some more options surface in this cycle to help replace what criminals have lost.
I agree the numbers on Temu were busted, so it makes sense it’s banned. I like the design concept behind it - you have to run to get your money so it discourages “solitaire” runners like Dyper/Cold-Ones. You have to commit to a server over multiple turns so you give the Corp the opportunity to ICE it further, which is more interactivity than Bank Job or Dirty Laundry. The problem the numbers. Turn 1 “Temu, run Temu 3 times” was a worthwhile play even if it was Archives and they ICEd it next turn.
But let’s not pretend with any of the banned/restricted/rotated cards it’s as simple as “they’ll just replace it with something better.” The wait time between “we just identified this card is a problem and banned it” and “I’m opening a pack with the replacement” is about a year, maybe more.
Runner econ took a big hit with the rotation plus ban/restrict list. The default runner econ engine at Worlds was Tapwrm, which is nuts. And the first two packs of the new cycle don’t really have the fix for that. Banning/Rotating key runner econ is a genuine loss not quickly repaired.
I do prefer the Crim pairing of Mongoose and Femme over those two, but it’s true that “the killer faction” doesn’t have a good killer without a “but” on it.
Anarchs can just install Paperclip and feel happy they’ve got barriers handled. Shapers can just install Gordian (or Inversificator, or Refractor) and feel happy they’ve got code gates handled.
Crims install Faerie and say “…but it only works once, I also need something re-usable” or Mongoose “…but it only works once per run, I need a second killer”, or Femme “but it cost me 9c and isn’t even that efficient”
Re: card draw
Earthrise and Career Fair is pretty solid, the real thing we lost there was Andy who made that combo better. Deuces is alright.
Shaper seems like it’s meant to be the better “draw” faction, with the other two getting a “…but” draw card. Inject says “…but you have to trash your programs, better have recursion”. Crims have one of those too, Drug Dealer is great draw, he just says “…but you better be rich”. Which Crims used to be. What was lost is Siphon, Temujin, Desperado.
I think Crims losing their giant econ is the bigger problem…
Supposedly, criminals are the killer faction, but I find it really hard to make any argument for a criminal killer that is better than Nanotek or Mimic.
Someone below mentioned Mongoose and Femme and I agree that I prefer those over the ones you mentioned. However, I also think that Faerie is one of the best killers in the game. Couple it with Sac Con and/or Baba Yaga and it can’t be beat.
I think Crim is lacking right now due to the loss of Desperado and Account Siphon. For years those cards meant that Crim couldn’t get too many powerful cards or else they would simply crush. Eventually I’m guessing they’ll creep back up in power once more cards get designed.
I’m not sure the old trope about factions excelling at different types of ICE is going to hold.
Shapers seem to enjoy solving the puzzle on how to beat ICE (they can break all ICE cheaper than any other faction)
Anarchs seem good at busting down walls, infecting corporations with viruses for shits n grins, and taking other ICE to the face (cards that reward on taking damage, good tag-me builds)
Crims seem to wonder why anyone would bother with ICE at all if you can just work around it in the virtual world or IRL
That’s a really cool take on an evolving color pie for the game reflecting fully alternate approaches to ice and servers, instead of a more flat set of specialties.
Instead of dividing up a flat pie, go above, below, and outside the bound of the original circle that the pie was. I like it.
No, Temujin doesn’t give ratios for 5 sure gamble. You must pay for runs, and 5 sure gamble would cost 10 clics.
Lib Accounts don’t do that either.
Not taking speed of use is a mistake. I’d rather play 15 sure gamble than 15 Temujin in a given deck, because this force you to draw and progress through the end of your deck.
Temujin (or LibAccount, Armitage) block users at the beginning of their install : the corp is phase 2 faster than the runner only using these.
Value of Temujin is not 16. It’s 16 - 5 runs and a card : it may be 16 within the first turns, then a double clic cred may have more value by the moment a run cost 3, or worst than an Armitage if a run cost 2.
If you’re telling “but archives”, then I’ll reply that non icing these against Crim is a noob move, and if you say “but horizontal…”, I’d say come on. There got to be crim moves against that, since they lost their autoinclude syphons and Desperados. Temujin HQ isn’t free detag if Syphon anymore. Without Whizzard, it is a different world for horizontal.
Putting it on restricted wouldn’t be a bad thing if that makes crim player having to think Larla or Temujin.
You’re thinking about the card without its integration problems. 3x SecTest, 3x LibAccount, 3x Temujin, 3x Bank Job, 3x Dirty Laundry is a bad econ engine, because thinking “but 100c+ is enough cred to win most games” is very wrong if you fight any random glacier. What do you do once you can’t run in T4 ? Clic credits & draw to find/install Femme while the corp IAA stuff in their remote ?
I agree with you about John Masanori, and would go one further to say criminal is still more dependent than the other runner factions on neutral economy cards like Earthrise, Dirty Laundry, and Daily Casts; though at least some of that is because they combo with Career Fair.
I wish Johnny Mas was Core 2. Such a sweet, balanced Netrunner card, one that encouraged running but without having a huge payout like Desperado or Temu.
Thanks for pointing this out. I was thinking about making a Netrunner Dorks post to see if Boggs would respond if he’s already submitted the new MWL or if there’s no change since it’s been a bit over 4 months. I guess I’ll just wait for a few weeks instead.