Would limited Astroscript kill Fast Advance?

[bblum]

@kiv

Blue Sun has a lot more desired splashes than it has influence, and I end up playing some combination of 1x Tollbooth, 1x Ash, 1x Adonis, 1x Snare, 1x SEA/Midseasons which is ripe for tutoring. Or you just get another Oversight and cash out.

Add Levy University and max out on bootcamps. Then you got 4 additional copies of tollbooth in addition to adonis and snare. Now we just need a piece of ice that tutors for an upgrade to find ash, and an upgrade that tutors for operations to find midseasons.

[Dragar]

Most plans take the following form:

Step 1: [Insert Unlikely Premise]
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit!

But Weyland’s plans always look like this:

Step 1: [Assemble the Unlikely Combo Pieces]
Step 2: Profit!
Step 3: ???

[IirionClaus]

@kiv

I could be wrong but my impression is that since Blue Sun, nobody actually tested AggNeg in a deck.

What you just described is called “Project Atlas” Except that you can actually keep the counter until they steal an agenda and then Midseason them.

@bblum

Add Levy University and max out on bootcamps.

I’m assuming you’re either joking or that you never actually tried putting Levy U in a deck … cause it’s awful.

[bblum]

Yes. Haha, oh man, I’d forgotten that it’s 3 rez 1 trash. (And we’re right back to “did they even playtest this?”)

[mykonian]

@IirionClaus

Aggressive Negotiations requires you to score an agenda on that same turn AND have a click left. I’ve been trying to use that card since Core and never succeeded - be honest, when is the last time you played it or had it played against you?

Happened to review this card a couple of weeks ago after toying around with some core only decks, because there were a couple of people on octgn preparing them for a tournament who were looking for opponents.

After that tried it in a GRNDL deck (didn’t need the extra influence for more draw cards given extra tutors, but would be even more dependent on a good start) and extended the already aggressive always advance playstyle weyland has to always double advance. Basic supermodernism gameplan, a tempo deck and trying to assemble your combo quickly enough that when they are set up to steal your agenda you are ready to punish them. Aggressive negotiations was there to make geothermal fracking into the 4th to 6th “atlas” you could draw, albeit a bit more awkward.

And moreso than the baseline weyland supermodernism, that deck was volatile. Either you took off or you didn’t. Also had a poor pvpp shaper matchup. Fun to play though. May also be my choices of cards or way of playing that made it poor vs ppvp.

[IirionClaus]

@bblum

Yes. Haha, oh man, I’d forgotten that it’s 3 rez 1 trash. (And we’re right back to “did they even playtest this?”)

I think giving the Corp unlimited, good Ice tutoring is probably a bad idea.

Also, to be honest, DBS fills that niche pretty well DBS so good.

[jerklin]

@mediohxcore

Or just ban the Future Perfect. That card is 100% busto.

This is the one I would target. It’s strange to me that it wasn’t Limit 1 per deck when it was printed.

[bblum]

If levy had 2 rez 4 trash and the click ability didn’t cost a credit it’d still be leagues worse than DBS.

[IirionClaus]

@bblum

If levy had 2 rez 4 trash and the click ability didn’t cost a credit it’d still be leagues worse than DBS.

Hm … the main issue with such a card is that it thins your deck, making R&D much more vulnerable. With that said, 4 trash is reasonable. It basically says “when you draw a card, you’re guaranteed to get the ice you want”. I think it would see play, maybe over DBS in some decks. Either way I don’t think FFG wants Corp to have that functionality.

@jerklin

This is the one I would target. It’s strange to me that it wasn’t Limit 1 per deck when it was printed.

It’s still a 5/3 agenda and it has counters (Imp, Utopia Shard, now Wanton Destruction).

[eric_c]

it’s also a burden for the PE players who have to use it, and an annoying tax for corps when runners decide to access it and bid 0 repeatedly from an unprotected R&D/archives

[kiv]

@IirionClaus

What you just described is called “Project Atlas” Except that you can actually keep the counter until they steal an agenda and then Midseason them.

If I could just play more than 3 Atlas, I would

AggNeg is much worse but it’s an additional copy of an effect that the deck really wants.

@IirionClaus

I think giving the Corp unlimited, good Ice tutoring is probably a bad idea.

Existing limits are (a) being forced to reveal the ICE you took, (b) limited hand size, and (c) increasing R&D agenda density (which is how I lose most of my games as Foundry).

If it cost less, then MAYBE it would be playable in Grail or NEXT lists that are linear. But even then, you could take DBS and have a good chance to find an acceptable ICE.

I’d love for University to be an Ambush like Snare/Space Camp where they access it and you get to tutor. Or even GRNDL Refinery style where you advance it, then trash it to get an ICE for each counter on it.

Either way, I’d rather have a limited use tutor that’s playable, than a theoretically unlimited use tutor that’s totally unplayable.

[IirionClaus]

@kiv

I’d love for University to be an Ambush like Snare/Space Camp where they access it and you get to tutor. Or even GRNDL Refinery style where you advance it, then trash it to get an ICE for each counter on it.

That’s a brilliant idea. Tweet Lukas An ambush that pulls ice off R&D could be extremely useful.

[kiv]

I don’t have Twitter, but feel free to send it to him

[GreedyGuts]

Talking about Titan FA, I tried a deck recently that I thought’d do pretty decently. Trick of Light focused, with a Biotic for good measure, taking advantage of some of the advanceable ice around come O&C, like Fire Wall (much nicer than Hive, really, especially if you want to ToL some).

Have swapped over to a Glacier w/ SanSans deck, because MaxX is eeevil and I don’t think event-focused combos are going to have an easy time of it. Perhaps I just need to practice the matchup more, perhaps I just had poor luck.

But Eater with Femme and Knight to Siphon, Wanton, and Keyhole their hearts out? Tricky to stop, that. Not impossible, there was at least one game where I think making better choices might have kept me alive – and if I’d imported the tagging pieces instead it’s possible that I could’ve run Scorch and managed to make them regret everything (honestly, tempted to just run a Data Raven anyway, Scorch or no – or just run 2x Scorch and hope they foolishly tag themselves).

But it wasn’t an easy matchup. What might’ve saved NEH was all the non-event Econ. Suppose we’ll see, but losing two or three hands of FA pieces to well-timed Wantons is tricky to overcome. Not impossible, but painful.

[jerklin]

@IirionClaus

It’s still a 5/3 agenda and it has counters (Imp, Utopia Shard, now Wanton Destruction).

It’s more like a 5/3 for the corp, 5/1 for the runner considering how often you’ll successfully steal it, which is the problem.

All the Fragments are limit 1 per deck, yet the most powerful 5/3 by a long shot is not. Seems odd to me.

[V01d]

I am waiting for the time when we will be given an event or effect of some kind that forces corps to install a card (if possible) in a new remote server.

[Badeesh]

I think it may be because they’re neutral.

[Span_Argoman]

@V01d

I am waiting for the time when we will be given an event or effect of some kind that forces corps to install a card (if possible) in a new remote server.

Like Mushin no Shin?

[V01d]

I meant a runner card, so you can force corp to install FPs (or snares)

[strundle]

@jerklin

All the Fragments are limit 1 per deck

There are probably some balance reasons for that, but my guess is that was 80% a flavor decision to have all three fragments represent one complete set of agendas.