Official Rules Question Thread

The trashing of the card, during which a replacement effect RFGs the card.

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Same as Tollbooth no longer triggering when you Femme it.

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Except it does when it’s the Corp’s turn.

So? That’s because on the Corp’s turn it gets to go first. If it ends the run, Femme’s ability fizzles in the same way.

So that’s the exact thing you said wouldn’t happen on the Corp’s turn in Slums/CtM?

Femme/Tollbooth: Runner Turn, Femme bypasses Booth, Booth triggers and fails to resolve. Corp Turn, Booth forces the Toll, then Runner can bypass.

Slums/CtM: Runner Turn, Slums RFGs card, CtM triggers and fails to resolve. Corp Turn, CtM triggers and fails to resolve, Slums RFGs card.

That’s literally Simultaneous Effects for Femme/Tollbooth, and it can’t apply for Slums/CtM, because CtM would trace you if it’s failing to resolve due to Simultaneous Effects otherwise.

I only brought up Femme/Tollbooth because it has been known since the core set that an ability can fizzle if its trigger condition is no longer valid by the time that ability would go to resolve.

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Actually, I’m no longer sure. My brain is mush.

YES, EXACTLY!! xD

Like, look, I accept that this is true. I’m looking for the mechanism of how it’s true. It can’t be a chain reaction, because both the trash replacement and the CtM ability trigger at the same time, so they look like they should fall under Simultaneous Effects and care about whose turn it is, except they don’t. SO WHERE’S THE BEEF? I mean, uh, what’s making it do this?

I was all set to just say ‘Simultaneous Effects’ and be done with it, and congratulate that one person who used that silly edge case to actually get a single trace on a Slums player by playing a literally unplayed card… But I dunno, maybe there’s some dumb strategy behind forcing the runner to AOYCR and then slamming them with tag punishment? And now they can’t for no discernable reason beyond ‘We said so’. :confused:

(I’m still ok with this. Currently I plan on explaining it to people as ‘They both trigger at the same time, Slums RFGs and then CtM can’t resolve. Same as a billion other things.’ And if anyone says AOYCR, I throw a smokebomb and vanish.)

Ahem…

Case Closed: CtM vs Slums: RFG the first card, then CtM no longer triggers for the rest of the turn.

If anyone figures out why this is still true for AOYCR, just mesage me the reason. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Remember that in Netrunner, abilities have a few different states. The important ones for this discussion are (a) trigger condition met, (b) triggered, (c) resolving, though of course an ability can also be done resolving.

So it should look more like:

Runner turn: Femme and Tollbooth meet their trigger conditions, Femme triggers first, Femme resolves and bypasses Tollbooth, Tollbooth goes to trigger and can’t because its trigger condition is no longer met.

Corp turn: Femme and Tollbooth meet their trigger conditions, Tollbooth triggers first, Tollbooth resolves and either:

  • Runner pays 3Cr, Femme triggers, Runner can use Femme’s ability, etc.
  • Tollbooth ends the run, Femme goes to trigger and can’t because its trigger condition is no longer met.

No, it’s because the replacement effect is not triggered. Remember, only abilities are triggered. Individual effects just are what they are.

Thank you. I’m pretty sure I said this, but not as clearly.

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If it’s not triggered, CtM doesn’t have a chance to trigger, because the thing CtM is looking for to trigger never happens. It has to trigger if CtM triggers. … (And now an amusing image came to me of someone curled up in a ball, sobbing ‘It has to trigger… it has to… has to trigger… has to… It has to trigger…’)

Imagine I had a Current active that literally said “Instead of trashing cards, remove them from the game.” You’re arguing that this still triggers CtM’s ability? (Slums basically gives me a one-time-only version of that.)

Special headache gift for you : AOYCR & Tyr’s hand.
You’re welcome :slight_smile:

If you followed what I’ve been saying, I’ve never argued that CtM ever triggered. It’s trigger condition was met, but it never got the chance to trigger.

No, I wouldn’t argue that. I’m not sure how that follows from what I said.

Once a triggered ability is triggered, it must immediately resolve, pending any timing priority issues. --ANCUR

In order to use a triggered ability a prerequisite must be met. This prerequisite is either a trigger cost that must be paid (paid ability) or a trigger condition that must be met (conditional ability). Once an ability is triggered, its effect is resolved immediately and can only be stopped by prevent or avoid effects. --ANCUR

I do admit that ‘Trigger condition met, but never triggered, so of course it wouldn’t resolve’ would actually do all these things and satisfy me. But, uh. That doesn’t seem to be how the rules say triggering works?

(Also the word ‘trigger’ and its derivatives has lost all meaning for me at this point. :frowning: #actuallyTriggered )

When one or more abilities have the same timing trigger or can be triggered at the same time, each player chooses the order his own abilities trigger. A player can trigger an optional conditional ability before a required conditional ability if they both have the same trigger condition.

Usually “meets trigger condition” and “triggers” happen concurrently, but sometimes they do not. Simultaneous effects are one such situation.

So add this situation to the list of two situations that causes Conditional abilities to trigger and fail to resolve (Currently: Simultaneous and Chain Reaction)

In the past 15 hours there have been 159 posts in this thread. I just want to throw that stat out there.

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Sneakdoor / Apocalypse, for example :wink:

Netrunner must not be dead!

Unfortunately, I don’t think it works. While the game might keep track of the Archives run for posterity, it doesn’t count for card abilities because a Sneakdoor run counts as a run on HQ.