Do we have a rant thread? We do now.
Bring what you like to a tournament, but what’s the point of crushing noobs in the casual room of jinteki.net?
I brought a deck to the game, not 45 hit points.
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maybe they’ve never actually used the deck before and they’re just trying it out. you ever think about that?
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Could be sometimes, but this person played pretty confidently and had the alt art PE identity. And you’d be pretty unlucky to have to play against PE as often as you do if it was always someone trying it out for the first time.
Why should PE be not played in Casual? What other IDs would you ban?
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All of them. Netrunner is most fun in draft
Why are you trying to rationally argue with a person who is expressing their emotions?
I wouldn’t ban any IDs or particular cards. It’s the overall style: playing in a way that the runner’s cards don’t matter.
This is a childish thread and you should delete it. PE is currently one of the most casual in the format. Net damage is a core game mechanic. You lost, and trial and error is how you learn to make better decisions.
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The thread isn’t childish, it’s not like people have a lot of viable outputs for their expression in this forum. Sometimes you just got to bitch. I could fill this thread to capacity with my thoughts on the meta right now. Net damage is the least teched against match up right now, it’s starting to get popular, as killing the runner is one of the only consistent ways of winning this game as the Corp nowadays. It’s annoying to want to play a normal game of netrunner, instead of rock paper scissors with cards, which is what the constructed environment is now. I agree that PE isn’t unwinable by any stretch of the imagination, but that doesn’t invalidate his feelings in the subject.
Further more, I know he knows how to get better at netrunner, but that’s not the problem. It’s that right now getting better at netrunner seems to be about choosing the right cards more than ever.
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If we’re expressing opinions and wanting to get better then I wanna vent about people conceding the second something doesn’t go their way. I think one of the most reliable ways to get better at this game is having to play from behind. Just because an ABT didn’t hit, or you got your accounts closed doesn’t mean you should scoop. There’s a difference between conceding when you have no outs and conceding when you had a single bad turn.
Okay, that’s all.
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I see where you’re coming from, but the game is a lot different than before. Before the Mumbad cycle, I didn’t notice a lot of people quitting games on Jinteki or OCTGN, but afterwards, especially during flashpoint, there just doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of point to continuing a game unless you’re in a tournament. Even then, you might just know you don’t have any viable outs, because you know your opponent is going to put forth at least the minimum amount of effort necessary to make the right plays. If an ABT goes bad, eh, it happens. If you get your source of economy oppressed, or you face an ice that you just can’t do anything about realistically on all servers that matter, it’s time to start a new game.
Also, done match ups are just basically impossible at this point, if your opponent has a good start. Did Andy just Career Fair/Temujin, Desperado, Laundry, Laundry a server first turn? Your Corp deck might not be able to gain the economy needed to complete if you know there’s a security testing coming soon and you’re playing horizontal. If you get midseasonsed, and you don’t really have a way past resistor, you should probably scoop because you’re just wasting time. Most of the time, I scoop because I know my deck can’t do a certain thing it needs to do. I might be able to score a win against a player that doesn’t know any better, but what’s the point?
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What I think is good to do is explain to your opponent that you’re going to concede. I got half my ice keyholed or trashed by a maxx player and said “I don’t think I can beat you, is it ok if I concede?”
It’s not all about the meta, there are gonna be unfun strategies in every card game; though certainly FFG is to blame to an extent. It’s also not about winning. I wouldn’t have fun beating PE with lucky guesses and careful card drawing.
A huge number of decks - particularly asset heavy corp decks - rely heavily on the snowball effect. If NEH or CTM, or Gagarin or any Museum/Mumbad City Hall deck gets a great start and you can’t control it as Runner, the game is often effectively over. I don’t begrudge people conceding these games. I do it in real life. Conversely, many of these decks are often dead in the water if the snowball is shut off.
(Half of my practice games IRL involving CTM end with a concession in the first few turns, either from my opponent or from me. That’s just how many games of Netrunner are right now now.)
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This all sounds like really bad practice for identifying your outs in low percentage situations, to me.
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Sure, but by definition it won’t matter much! There’s only so much time, and probably more fruitful and enjoyable skills to learn.
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We’ve all been playing netrunner for some time now, let’s just call it what it is. If you’re new at the game, enjoy thinking you can win while being pitifully smashed.
@Lttlefoot You could always add a feedback filter? Or Infiltration? But yeah, that’s top poop.
Also, I don’t feel you have to ask to concede, the opponent should be aware of the situation, they’re playing the same game as you. If they have a problem with it, allow them to squash you while getting yourself a beverage (or snack) and ask them if it was good for them when they’re done.
Each to their own, and I’m not going to try to dictate how anyone else should seek their enjoyment from the game, but I think that playing from (badly) behind is a really fruitful skill to practice. I got Midseasoned on turn two by a kill deck at Regionals in a resource-heavy deck with no Plascrete and lost 7-6 because I mis-sequenced my last turn. I lost a match at the previous Regionals to a Geist with all but three cards in the heap with a Blacklist rezzed behind ice he had no means to break. I think being in those situations and not immediately scooping is valuable.
Maybe it’s a matter of degrees and this is a slippery slope fallacy by another name, but I don’t think there’s much value in only playing games that are going your way (if the objective, on any level, is to improve).
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I agree; I’m never unhappy when my opponent concedes, either!
The most value seems to come from games that are close. Games where you’re trying to fight your way out of a terrible situation are so varied that ‘practice’ is hard to do in the first place, and learning even worse - from a terrible position you can make entirely the correct plays and still got absolutely nowhere, which makes knowing whether or not your decisions were a mistake or not very hard.
Far better to identify the mistakes that lead you to the terrible board state. If there weren’t any, and it was just bad luck, learning how to shrug and move on without taking any mental attrition seems a more valuable skill than anything else I can imagine. I’d much rather spend my time learning these skills and distinguishing between those scenarios than drag on a game that seems (to me) to have limited pedagogical value, and particularly if it’s going to sour my limited practice time. Ultimately I play this game for fun.
If you think that ‘knowing your outs’ is a weakness you need to work on though, I’d of course encourage you to play out those games. Against many decks (ones that are less snowbally, where victory from a good start is less assured, or where there are tempo-resets like EOI, Closed Accounts, Apocalypse) I’d welcome playing the whole thing out.
This is probably the source of our difference in opinion, I think, because it absolutely is a weakness in my play that I’ve been working on.
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Thread cancer. No real need for this thread to exist.
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I agree, we already have several rant threads that I don’t want to mention or revisit.
This is not the first, the others may just pretend to be something else.