Siskel and Ebert Ruin The Meta: Film Critic Discussion

Snatch and grab is a good call; So long as you can get a credit lead or make paying into the trace unattractive.

Probably because toybox is not a good card outside of draft. I wonder if it had been only 2 clicks with maybe a credit cost? Maybe would have been more valuable.

I’m interested in this point. My feeling not having played against it is that RP suffers more than Midseason because Midseason is often an early/midgame threat anyway. By the late game, the runner is usually rich enough and close enough to winning that Midseason isn’t going to fire. The Midseason is there to keep the aggression off early. How many copies does Shaper run? 2? I can’t see any other faction running more than that.

RP, however, is going to suffer because nabbing 3 points out of RnD/HQ is a solid way to end the game vs them, especially on a Medium dig or suchlike. Frequently the issue is that centrals feel really fruitless on the last three turns of the game and the remote is locked. Now, central hail mary runs are much more likely to end in a win if you’ve been able to steal basically any points earlier.

I think Butchershop might particularly have issues because their fall back plan if Midseason kill doesn’t work is hampered by Clot, which is going right in the same decks that are running Film Critic. Yellow Flash is possible a more interesting interaction because it pushes the Midseason threat earlier in the game and could possibly outrace Film Critic? I’m not sure, though.

I, personally, am going off Midseason and onto yellow rush when D&D arrives, but I think that NBN has counterplay available that RP doesn’t.

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I think vs any NBN deck, you’ll get film critic down early. I’d run 2-3 in shaper depending on how necessary it was for my plan. Leaning heavily towards 2. If NBN tries to just lay down a bunch of agendas to outrace your ability to click your agendas into your hand, I think you just cycle the agendas through the critic and don’t worry about scoring them. In this way, it functions like imp. But even against other NBN decks, it’ll be good just to keep your creds up early if you see an NAPD.

In criminal, I expect it to show up in logos/hostage decks as a 1-of. In an off campus deck, potentially as a 2-of.
Anarch probably doesn’t run it because they already have imp.
Shaper, I would expect it from now on.

FC testing is in full effect here since gencon, and I think these assesments are spot on- it’s not a sky is falling situation, but it definitely feels strong against many of the current strongest decks. TFP has been the power-behind-the-throne of RP for a long time and this card stabs it right in the back. It doesn’t nullify the deck at all, just gives you a plan B beyond “always draw right and be rich and win every psi game”

So far it hasn’t been shaking up my Yellow Flash game too much- instead of desperately racing for credits while I score agendas, they’re desperately digging for FC, either way I’m rushing agendas same as always. a one-of Snatch-n-grab helps out as well.

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Also, presumably the agenda just goes to archives if you do trash film critic, so it’s not like its totally safe at that point as it is a known agenda in archives, which the corp has to have protection for, either via popping Jackson immediately (which can be problematic) or protecting with enough ICE to dissuade or stop the run completely, which thins out ICE density over the other, typically more valuable servers. In any event, it puts the corp into a reactive damage control mode which is never where they want to be.

edit: Also, wow, what a run-on sentence, I am so sorry to all my English teachers for breaking your hearts…

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Do we have a final say on how Hosting works with this during multiple agenda hits?

If most are correct, you able to host the second agenda you find and toss the previous one in the bin.

If my Corp straw-reaching is true, Film Critic is ‘full’ after the first agenda and can’t host new agendas.

The problem is that the “single host” and access trigger are in separate paragraphs. So the abilities aren’t tied together and the second one will always trigger when you access something that triggers it. There’s no conditional on “not hosting an agenda already”. So, when you host the second agenda, you have to trash the first by the constant rule.

Thanks. That ultimately feels right and strong. I’ve been having a lot of fun with Hayley Professor and Nasir with Film Critic. No longer do I have to run 3x Plascrete because Midseasons was a guaranteed thing due to low econ rigs.

There is no rule for allowing the trashing of the hosted card on Film Critic, so if an agenda is on there, there is no way to replace it short of spending the two clicks to empty it first.

This is incorrect. The hosting of the agenda on Film Critic is optional. So when you try to host it, the game state would stop you at an illegal action and you would be unable to use Film Critic’s optional ability, which means the “no longer being access and is uninstalled” part never triggers.

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That’s a very good argument for why it wouldn’t work. It’s kind of like over installing a console. May be correct. We’ll find out from a twitter ruling i suppose

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i’ve said in other threads, but a great way to shift around Film Critic (instead of finding a direct answer) is to run more currents.

another side effect of the agenda never being stolen (we see everyone focus on Punitive, Midseasons, ambush agendas, etc.) is that currents won’t get turned off from a FC score.

there are plenty of interesting corp currents actually. if you’re Argus, and they turn off your ability, you can at least run Housekeeping or something. everyone can run Lag Time at the very least, making runs much more taxing.

on the runner side of this, it helps keep things like New Angeles City Hall (that glowing review helped keep your reputation in tact i guess), and The Source in play longer. will it be worth playing them? not sure, but it’s an interesting prospect.

the great thing about The Source and Film Critic is how much FC complements TS, getting past the increased cost to steal and the downside of being trashed as soon as an agenda is stolen. i think i’ve already decided to take Clot out of my Kate decks for a second Legwork (because i sorely missed it), but i think a swap for Clot for The Source in prepaid Kate might not be a completely terrible idea.

being trashed as soon as an agenda is stolen is still a huge draw back though, so it might end up still being a pretty terrible card after all is said and done. it would definitely need to revolve around a strategy of sniping agendas out of remotes. for Kate, it might just be a ‘win more’ card.

I like Source in Adam on account of Dr. Lovegood (though in all it is a bit contrived), but the poor sap might have trouble even fitting Critics in case the Dr is out.

Is there a chance that Ghost Branch might come back as a way to stick lots of tags on the runner in NBN or Weyland? We can always Back Channels to benefit from the bluff.

If you’re diligent about pulling the agenda off FC, it can almost neutralize Haarpsichord’s ability.

Can we combine this topic with the other Film Critic topic (@SneakySly / @mediohxcore)? I think Film Critic will be good, but I don’t think it needs 2 topics in the same week :wink:

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Threads merged.

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So looking at P.4 of the FAQ, it says that in order to host a card that card must meet the condition of the hosting card. I.e. you cant ‘host’ a resource on PW and have it go to heap. In this way, it would be illegal to host a second card at all on Film Critic. The card’s text disallows it.

Best argument I can make while on my phone on a noisy bus. :slight_smile:

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Just play 2. It is Siskel -and- Ebert, after all.

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The question, to me is this:

Is the condition on these cards “must be of type” or is it “only one of type”. Does this make sense? IF the ability counts what’s on it already and uses that info to determine if it can host more, what you’re saying makes total sense. But, if it’s just a question of “is this of the proper type to be hosted” then the constant rule would evaluate and cause a trash after you host on it.

It’s not that you’re trashing a card because you want to, its because the card is hosting another card but now has to meet its constant rule of just a “single” card of its valid type. This is a symantics question. Its very pedantic. I hate people like me posting this kind of stuff, but we don’t know. I’m not going to argue one way or the other. Occam’s razor says you’re most likely right… but this game… these rules…

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I see what you’re saying here, and why that might be the case. It’s a good argument and the only one I could feasibly see FFG taking. However, this seems to me a mistaking “can host one agenda” for something like “can hold one agenda” (which doesn’t yet exist, but let’s go with it for argument’s sake). If it said hold or something other than ‘host’ you would be legally able to use the host ability because it would check how many it is ‘holding’ only after it is hosted. But because ‘host’ is a trigger condition that is governed by the restrictive phrase [edit: constant ability], this would be illegal.

Edit: Just to complement the above: the condition for hosting on Film Critic is a Constant Ability. They’re always on, always checking.

From Ancur:

“Constant abilities are abilities that are ‘always on’. They can have conditions that need to be met in order to cause certain effects, but constant abilities are not triggered and do not have costs.”

It’s not confirmed. It was my understanding from… well logical inference that if you choose to host another Agenda on Film Critic, the other agenda would fall off, in the same way that a card hosted on Glenn Station - when Glenn Station is forfeited - would be sent to Archives.

However, the argument being made here is that there is no specific rule that says you are allowed to freely “un-host” cards. In the most well known situations, you’ve been able to (hosting on Djinn for example) but this follows the over-writing program rule. Another, lesser used example, would be hosting connections on Off-Campus Apartment. Since the Runner is not allowed to freely trash resources, and there is no specific clause allowing for this on OCA, they could not “over-write” when isntalling a new resource.

Of course, Film Critic plays differently to both of these examples, since it is hosting a Corporation card, rather than a Runner card. There is no specific clause saying that the Runner may trash the hosted agenda when hosting a new agenda on Film Critic. However, Film Critic does say that “Whenever you access an agenda, you may host that agenda on Film Critic” and this means we have two pieces of text that both modify the rules, that directly contradict one another: “Film Critic may host a single agenda” and “Whenever you access an agenda, you may host that agenda on Film Critic.” And we haven’t been provided with a clarifying ruling, nor do the comprehensive rules specifically handle situations like this one.

Basically, we have to wait for the FAQ, or more likely a poorly distributed twitter ruling.