I’ve taken IG to a dozen tournaments, often paired with Runners that were also very slow (Stirling, Apex) and, ultimately, it shouldn’t take much longer to play the deck than it does to play the average Jinteki RP game.
Like others have said, Genomics is not slow in actual time, but slow in number of turns played. Most of your turns should take less than 5 seconds to complete because all you do is get two credits and slap down an asset. Most of the time is spent by the Runner and if they are smart, they’ll sit back and play in a fairly straightfoward manner, which saves a lot of cash.
The only problem are people who get completely lost. Sometimes you play against someone who has 3 credits, 2 cards in hand and doesn’t know what to do. And they don’t know what to do next turn, nor the turn after that one. They probably can’t beat Genomics like they beat other decks so they tend to lose a lot of time. And unlike other decks, Genomics can’t play fast, even if the Runner does nothing you are still going to sink a lot of turns getting money to score so there’s risk there.
Fortunately, this can be fixed by playing fast enough for both players and by winning enough so that you only face experienced players. Even then, it’s not an issue. I really think it’s overblown.
I think Faust is a fun and innovative card that has added an interesting new AI into the mix of breakers available in netrunner.
If the ‘discard card’ costs were replaced with ‘pay 2c’ then the card may actually be overpowered, since credits can be stored with no limit, and generated without limit.
The current card-powered mechanism limits the potential of Faust against challenging ICE (high strength or multiple subs), since a runner can only have so many cards in hand. It can be distressing to use you life force (cards) to break ICE. While hand size can be expanded in-faction with Oragami, more creative solutions discussed above are much more effective at resolving ICE without relying on Faust.
In the end Faust is an important part of a powerful anarch arcetype that relies on many cards to resolve complex servers built by corporations. There are many variations, but they all focus on:
ICE destruction (particularly multi-sub ICE)
David to resolve high-strength ICE
Faust to resolve any other ICE (and to break early gear-check ICE).
Getting cards is far more efficient than gaining credits if we’re equating 2 credits with 1 card. Wyldside becomes the equivalent to clicking for 4c. Clicking to draw is as good as clicking Magnum Opus, and of course it doesn’t require a 5 credit install cost or 2 MU. Diesel becomes a 0 cost Sure Gamble.
Not to mention that drawing cards also expands your options – while you’re drawing cards to fuel your next run, you could be drawing cards that give you other options. If your economy is credits, you generally don’t get to expand your set of options while building your economy.
If the limits of Faust in terms of the danger of flatlining and the danger of running out your deck were more meaningful I think it would be different, but as others have stated in this topic they can be worked around easily enough that it isn’t a big enough drawback from the raw efficiency of the card.
Consider also that if we think Faust’s costs are roughly equivalent to “2c: +2 strength” and “2c: break ice subroutine,” that makes Faust about as good as Eater, only without Eater’s drawback - you still get to access cards on a run with Faust. That’s… formidable, to say the least.
Um, what? 2c for +2 strength isn’t seen on any good traditional breakers, because you lose efficiency on the odds/evens, depending on the base strength of the breaker. AFAIK the only competitive breakers we have ever seen that pay 2c to break a single sub are Knight and now, to an extent, Peacock.
IMO the power of Faust comes from the variety of clickless draw options and/or high efficiency draw options, particularly that of Wyldside+Chronotype. Unlimited, clickless credits never come in twos. The reason Faust is so powerful right now is the draw engine(s) that power it. Wyldside+Chronotype is a super-powered version of a Daily Casts that never runs out. As a caveat, comparing cards to credits is always crude.
You know what deck used an efficient economy to fuel traditional breakers in a similar manner?
PP Kate
It may look a lot different on the surface, but it’s no surprise to me that Dumblefork may replace PP Kate as the deck to beat. In my mind they are fundamentally similar, using different tools but ultimately the same means (brutal efficiency) to the same end (victory). The Faust lists may feel more unfair because of the added pressure of ICE destruction, but I don’t see them as particularly dissimilar.
You’re comparing to dedicated breakers. Fracter is no good against a code gate, and Decoder is no good against a sentry. Compare that 2c for +2 (starting at 2) to the other AI breakers.
My remark was partially intended to highlight that I don’t think trashing a card to Faust is the equivalent of 2c. I think it’s actually more efficient than that, which is the scariest part.
all im saying is just beat this deck a few times in swiss and prob make the top8. seems fine. ill be riding this faust train as long as possible cause going back to the days where you lose to a lotus field / WoS rush remote is just as dumb as having all your ice destroyed after 20+ turns of netrunner.
give crim a good AI and corps some good AI hate and silence the saltines plz Damon
Faust is 3 credits. That means you have UP TO 17 CREDITS to spend on cards to make Faust work. The reality is that it doesn’t take 17 credits (it takes 11), so you have tons of slots to spend on OP cutlery
Faust also negates #anarchproblems, since it breaks Enigma->Astro/ABT/Sundew etc. like nothing.
Just win before your cards run out guys. With Medium it’s not that hard
Hard at work + Pancake is. With this combo, is Keyhole Eater better than Faust ?
I’d say yes and no ? 3/6/9/12 accesses a turn is better than 1/2/3/4 but you would only pump str+1/break 1 with Eater than str+2/break 1 with Faust.
Faust remote locks, not Eater. Their threat is very different. I wouldn’t say one is better than the other.
The main pb with Faust is people only trying to solve it with ice. People have dozen(s) of way to counter this but do not meta it because of a stupid preMWL “thou should not touch to ma 2x Cyberdex”.
Holy shit, we actually agree on something. I cut to 1, then 0 CVS a while ago in HB. Might go back to 1 soon though. Honestly will-o seems pretty strong as far as defensive upgrades. In the midgame after a fresh levy, landing this can be pretty backbreaking for a long time in most WyldcakesFaust builds.
Remove Cyberdexes, put 2x Chronos agendas, or Blacklists, then wait 2 monthes => problem solved.
I played a Wyldside Faust Maxx deck in august/september 2015 when Chronos/Blacklist was in like half of decks and though it was funny but a little shitty deck.
I had with it something like a today 60% winrate minus 2/3 of those 50% decks => 30% winrate or something => shit rate => shit deck => next cake please => …(wait 6 monthes)… => MWL => “Cake is The Thing” thread => very high doubts coming from me => replies => “no I’m not dumb” => retest => holy mother of glory baguettes, Cake is The Thing Today.
I would slot in blacklist, but influence is tight and I would think anyone aside from maybe foodcoats,RP or Blue Sun would struggle to defend the sucker. It pretty much necessitates two remotes.
That is until full immersion studio. Cause NBN needed more good cards.
Man, now I can’t wait for the Lost Carcosa City Grid, Cassilda’s Song Current, and Demoiselle d’Ys AI breaker. And we thought SanSan / 24/7 / Faust were overpowered
