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Account Siphon in the Current Meta

I like that he tried it. Good on him for making T8. The Elims are tough. I don’t like that he and others are flaunting it as a success. Mihn’s Andy? Success. Dan’s? Success. El-ad’s? No.

BTW, I’m talking that 33% in the Swiss, as well. No one without a Super Bye was sniffing that tight cut if one of their sides went 33%. He’s lucky they got rid of weak side wins.

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Can we change spags title to Freelance Trolling Contractor?

not a response to current discussion

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Only if I get the title of “DS9 Meme Guy”… :smile:

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LOL

Best believe I EARNED this badge, son.

I like that Freelance; I’ll work for/assassinate anyone. :gun: :bomb: :moneybag: :dollar: :heavy_dollar_sign:

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I just have to say that my worst loss at Worlds was a guy playing old school AS/CT. Absolutely mauled my NEH deck. The only game all weekend that I felt I never had a chance to win.

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I wake up in a cold sweat every night, regretting the fact I didn’t take AoA siphon spam to worlds.

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Is this for real? I don’t mean the cold sweat part, but do you think AoA would have done better against the field than, say, Noise?

I’m totally confident saying I would have performed better with AoA rather than the PPVP Kate I took

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Here’s the thing with siphon, you need to actually win the game even if you don’t get siphon spam off. my problem with the Noise Siphon spam deck is that unless I actually get off a siphon, I basically can’t win, mostly because crypsis is THAT bad. I’ll try a variant with Quetzal+Medium later, but the big issue with SIphon spam right now is the following

Shaper siphon spam: No good econ in shaper other than OPus for a siphon spam deck. so you are relegated to playing opus in your deck.

Criminal siphon Spam : You can’t play Kati jones/John masanori anymore, though that isn’t AS big a deal as it would be before. Really the only issue is playing 2-3 Same old thing in your deck, which have the potential to be dead cards. However Gabe siphon spam W/parasite and R&D multi acess is actually quite reasonable. As is the andromeda version of that. I think Trashing assets is the biggest issue with siphon spam. You need to break HQ AND prevent them from going to 0 credits,

Anarch Sipon Spam: Depending on if you are noise or quetzal 2 Main issues appear

Noise : Noise has the issue of a only OK economy sans siphon, AND very inefficent Icebreakers. Crypsis is a piece of shit of a breaker, yet you have to play 3 copies of it since you can’t play 3x siphon and 3x special order. IF you could play efficent breakers out of Siphon Noise then it would be crushingly good. Especially since Pawnshop noise makes Siphon noise able to get random Siphons that it otherwise wouldn’t. Siphon noise would be great if it weren’t for the whole Finding your icebreakers issue. It still is pretty good but not opressively so.

Quetzal : The issue with quetzal is Lotus Field, Seriously that card kills me inside, but the worst part is is that everyone plays 2-3 lotus field, Except for NEH with 3x architect. However this issue is magnified when Blue sun is added to the picture just die blue sun

Quetzal still works, and even wins when she doesn’t siphon people down. She still has the issue of meh archives pressue (DLR isn’t that good) and a weak keyhole/medium plan I think the keyhole plan is on average more powerful than the medium plan. but you can’t go stimhack into keyhole like you can with medium. So there is some weakness there. The real big problem with siphon spam quetzal though is … finding your ICebreakers.

I think criminal siphon spam has its place still, as does CT siphon+sentry breaker+Stimhack I’ve also had sucess previously with Siphon+atman out of kate, but The issue with that deck was that siphon+atman had meh econ. Anarch siphon spam needs an AI breaker that can actually efficently break ice, eater is OK, but I think eater will fall short thanks to crimsum grid and other shenanigans

Really? AoA seems to be a dead archetype since the Corp can make more money and if they defend against siphon smartly you just lose. I think PPVP Kate is much more solid.

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In my opinion -and I’ll probably get shit for this- PPVP Kate is the least threatening tournament archetype in netrunner right now. It feasts on weaker corp play, but peters out against tougher competition in all but the most competent hands.

AoA might be dead but that has more to do with Lotus Field and Blue Sun than AS.

I’m on my phone so I’ll follow up later

Yeah, it seems a bit more consistent to me too.

MAN, that deck sux.

http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/10700/worlds-2014-1-seed-kate-s-toolbox

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You’re better than most people.

The card gods were smiling down on you in that game against Minh as well.

And I’m not saying PPVP Kate is bad. It’s just… blah. Criminal has swingy awesome cards like Siphon, ES, and even Inside Job to an extent. On top of great econ. PPVP Kate is alright econ, alright breakers. Ride that shit to a a 45% win rate all day

Swingy decks may do you well in your local 3-round game night kit, but worlds was a lot longer than that. Lots of player skill and a consistent 45% runner deck is a lot more appropriate than trying to win the lottery.

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I was at worlds, but nice jab anyway. Some would say making the top 16 out of 250 people in seven rounds is a bit like hitting a jackpot, now that you mention it.

Also, I specifically said PPVP Kate is really effective with the highest piloting skill.

Playing Criminal is trying to win the lottery? Oookay. Maybe you don’t understand my use of the word swingy. I was implying that a card like Account Siphon (back on topic now) will tilt the board back in your favor. There isn’t anything comparable in PPVP Kate. Or maybe in Netrunner at all. It’s still a stupid good card.

Sorry I did misunderstand what you meant. Nevertheless, PPVP kate isn’t about how skilled your opponent is or isn’t. Crim simply can’t optimize to have winnable matchups against every corp archetype out there while shaper can. It’s all about whether you can predict the metagame; if you know a certain archetype will be missing, crim is a better bet, otherwise, shaper is always safe.

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Saying that it’s lucky to hit top 16 is outright wrong and insulting to those who got there.

It’s no coincidence that they were, almost without exception, well known names, national champions, etc. Say what you want about the meta or Corp’s dominance or whatever, but it’d be a bizarre coincidence if people who were already established as Very Good Netrunner Players just so happened to luck into the top 16.

Luck may have (will have) played a minimal part, but to compare it to a “jackpot” is silly, as that implies absence of skill involvement.

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No need to have a fit, it wasn’t meant as an insult at all. More a poke at FFG than anything.

But to elaborate (sigh), it’s no coincidence that the top 32, shoot maybe the top 64, were mostly all well known names and established players, but you’re simply dreaming if you think that making the cut didn’t require a bit of luck on some, however small, part. There were how many people tied at 14 or 16 prestige, (whatever was required to make the cut, I don’t remember, and I’m not going to look it up because this is beyond tedious now and off topic)? Twenty people maybe?

I totally agree with you, but very many skilled players that deserved to be there just as much didn’t make Top 16. It’s fun to celebrate wins and placing high, but also fallacious to say, “I was Top 8 so I’m the 8th best player IN THE WORLD”. @Nordrunner is an amazing Netrunner player, but just didn’t do that well at Worlds. I don’t consider @mediohxcore or @spags so much better (or better at all?) than Nord, but they played a bit better for sure and also had luck on their side. This is, after all, a card game. :smile:

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