You stay away from my beloved Box-E! It gives me the Memory to fuel my Big rigs and increases my hand size so I don’t need to worry about taking that Brain damage when I stimhack into your servers.
I think you are underestimating Doppelganger. It generally pales as a straight trade for Desperado, but now that the latter costs influence in crim, I’ve started giving the former another look. I think it shines most in Leela (who trends toward explosive bursts of running), and it has been kind of bonkers in a DDoS leela build i have been messing around with. But even out of other runners there is some nice synergy with other crim cards (bank job, sec test, etc. - even sneakdoor against an open archives, it is sometimes handy to keep the corp honest on discards at the same time you pressure HQ) and it does a boatload of work against any asset spam if you need to spot check them (for never advance, to keep a museum from getting through, etc.).
It’s pretty close to blank against foodcoats after turn 5 or 6, but Desperado isn’t generally netting a ton of credits in that matchup, either.
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I deeply wish Logos triggered on the runner scoring an agenda too. I think it would be well costed at that point.
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Leela top after Swiss at 45ish player store champs in North London today, don’t sleep on crim!
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I’ve been playing a list pretty similar to yours and loving stealth Andy. That said, there are two downsides I’ve seen so far with the current meta that I can see.
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Andy can no longer use desperado and have influence available for 2x R&D interface, 1x refractor, 1x corroder and still have influence left over for a third cloak. Ideally you want cloak out early because it’s the most flexible part of your rig and is what you need to deal with code gates. Not having the third I feel makes the deck lose a little consistency even though you typically don’t have the memory to install all 3 anyway. I’ve tried to make up for that with extra card draw power, which obviously isn’t criminal’s forte.
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Andy is obviously best-suited to deal with sentries, and even as more punishing sentries are popping up as people try to adapt to Faust, NBN is still dominant in the meta. When you play against fastro and asset spam FA, the big code gates are what you need to worry about. It depends on the matchup and game flow, but in many of those games I never even install silencers or sometimes even switchblade (although I often drop it when I can just so I don’t faceplant into an archer or something if the corp changed up the usual decklists). Some games I think I might have been better off as a stealth shaper. Also, there’s still the dreaded 9 credit sweeps week on turn 1.
Despite the downsides, my win-lose record has been pretty favorable so far and I never played stealth Andy until a week ago, so it’s working well despite those limitations - along with others than every criminal deck shares like lack of recursion, card draw power and situational economy. This might be the way to go if you want to play criminal right now.
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Yeah took my stealth andy that I’ve been playing for ages to our local SC yesterday and it went undefeated.
Had to beat an argus kill deck that’s been making the rounds and winning a few SCs in Australia, haarp 24/7 kill where I stole 3 exploda, 3 news teams, 15 minutes twice (he clicked it back each time), breaking news and then eventually an astro when he had like half a dozen cards left in the deck and was on 6 points with an astro counter…also beat a scary blue sun deck that plays the scorch package, quality agendas, and then twins + januses which the ridiculous switchblade saved me from instantly losing to…also beat that mumba turtlebacks museum NEH deck, though he played snares so it made it a bit more of a cat and mouse game (he tried to sneak a naked astro out t1 which I fortunately found), and then finally won a game v biotech with 3 caprice and 3 batty where I lost two switchblades, but won 6-5 on time…
Anyway the deck works fine. If the scariest thing is battys that you don’t expect, then so be it. If you see it coming, as you might in next ice etf decks, then it’s far easier to deal with. Deck is fine and still beats neh (also beat sponsorship fastro on our thursday warm up for the SC event by just hammering R&D with an RDI from early in the game). Might be time to play around with some other lists now though, or finally try pol op
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Nice job at the championship.
I agree the Batty/Keegan Lane shenanigans are problematic, which probably makes the deck a bit of a meta call. I’d probably slot a fallback deja vu if the deck didn’t lose 3 influence to desperado.
But it’s pretty much literally impossible with so much influence dedicated to cloak, corroder and refractor and literally no viable alternative console to desperado.
I have no idea what the deal is with criminal consoles. Box E and Logos could be playable if they didn’t cost so much to install. Doppleganger is interesting but terrible against glacier decks. They’re never going to print a criminal console as good as desperado again, but it’d be nice to get something Maya/astrolabe/vigil/grimoire/dinosaurus level quality as an alternative to paying the influence. Although even then, it’s tough because I feel like the designers indirectly linked a lot of the criminal economy to desperado.
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If you don’t want to play Andromeda, for whatever reason, the Stealth set-up is pretty fun out of Sil too. You also get to play High Stakes Job really easily. I’ve been messing around with this, and you still lose to Batty, have to win Caprice games, and race Astro (Leela probably has a better Fastro matchup) but High Stakes Job is so much fun to land.
Silhouette: Stealth Operative (Honor and Profit)
Event (17)
3x High-Stakes Job (Kala Ghoda)
3x Account Siphon (Core Set)
2x Inside Job (Core Set)
2x Special Order (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)
3x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)
1x Legwork (Honor and Profit)
Hardware (9)
3x Desperado (Core Set)
1x Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead)
2x R&D Interface (Future Proof) ••••
3x Silencer (Double Time)
Resource (5)
3x Security Testing (Honor and Profit)
2x Ghost Runner (The Spaces Between)
Icebreaker (6)
1x Corroder (Core Set) ••
1x Femme Fatale (Core Set)
1x Breach (Honor and Profit)
1x Passport (Honor and Profit)
1x Refractor (First Contact) ••
1x Switchblade (Up and Over)
Program (3)
1x Sneakdoor Beta (Core Set)
2x Cloak (Creation and Control) ••••
12 influence spent (maximum 15)
40 cards (min 40)
Cards up to Kala Ghoda
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I have actually been thinking about the crim problems of late, and whilst lots of cards I want to use aren’t legal for a while, I figure the turning wheel is prob a good RDI replacement in Andy as you may see it early and start farming counters quickly, it’s less of a tempo hit as well, and encourages central accesses that might get neglected. Frees up two influence for something like deja vu or a third cloak as well (I prefer deja vu here). But yeah experimenting with that sort of thing, and sports hopper and the like is still a ways off
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It appears to still be 1 influence unfortunately, so will only free up 1 influence from RDI 
Still could be a piece of the puzzle though when basically every criminal deck loses 3 influence to desperado though. I’m still thinking about what exactly I’ll do with it because it’s unique also, so a second copy is a dead draw – but you want to get it early to max its effectiveness.
The main reason to not play Andromeda is probably close to 50% of your competitive games are going to start with a 9 credit sweeps week. Despite that, she’s still my favorite runner.
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That was part of the reason I took a look at Sil.
Seriously though, High Stakes Job.
1 inf is all it takes for rebirth and Andy’s the best ID to take advantage of it.
I’ve been thinking about The Turning Wheel too, but with a slower Leela deck. One thing that I’ve found a lot of success doing with her is forcing a ton of ICE coverage everywhere with her ability, Sec Testing / Back Job, SDB / multi-access staring at the Corp on the table. TTW seems to fulfill a bunch of roles in that respect, with the particularly annoying ice placement issue (a simple first ice ETR on R&D / HQ isn’t going to cut it).
Farming a ton of counters early, waiting to hit R&D huge to bounce a remote agenda, then off to HQ for more… seems like some LeelaBullshit to me. It’ll be interesting to see how it works in reality.
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Wow, your meta is killy as fuck O.o
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We actually had a fair bit of RP, which I would have liked to play against, and a bit of PE as well. But yeah, kill decks come out for SCs, the rest of the time people aren’t so killy.
As for the people answering my turning wheel thingie, I run two RDIs so if I cut both and put two turning wheels in I save 2 inf 
And yes sweeps is for sure still a pain in the ass but if that’s the downside to Andy and everything else is upside I’ll live…for now 
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Entering bigboy’s stealth Andy into netrunnerdb and the saddest bit is: “Cards up to The Source”
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Been trying to get a Gang Sign Leela to work… It seems like the interaction would be super powerful, but in practice I’m having a hard time camping the remote so that Agendas pile up in HQ. I’ve identified the problem as economy efficiency. I can get breakers and install-order/setup time is negligible because of Special Order finding the breakers I need…
So, I need a decent Econ engine. In testing, Kati works but is way too slow, and SecTest/Desperado is a good strong engine, but weak to Glacier which is what I already have problems beating. Looking for alternate engines, I found the Goodbye engine being particularly powerful, assuming I can actually find/draw it. (Au Revoir+Snitch) It happens to synergize with Leela’s ability relatively efficiently, since I know what I’m returning to your hand. And then I can put High-Stakes Job in, too… Now, however, my problem is finding 2/3 and 1/2 cards that are untutorable for normal Criminal. Solutions?
(Currently, I’ve been using Express Delivery and Mr. Li. Mr. Li is good at it, but adds setup time. Express Delivery is working surprisingly well, and also denies Palana a credit for random upside.)
It feels like I have too many revolving pieces, and that I need to reduce what I’m doing and streamline things. I have Gang Sign+HQI because that’s the point of the deck, and it is very powerful when it goes off. I have efficient $$ breakers because money is the easiest thing for me to get in Leela, and that seems the best way to camp a remote. (Faust doesn’t quite work for two reasons: Not much draw power, and there aren’t many disposable cards that I can pitch to Faust in the first place. Alternately, Faust is being tech’d against and dodging that hate is another reason to avoid it.) I then need to have Au Revoir x2 or better and Snitch to fund the $$ breakers, and finding that is slow. So I have Mr. Li and Express Delivery to try and speed that up, only now I’m out of room for Criminal Tricks, so my lategame is pretty abyssmal. Which means I can’t camp the remote and the Gang Sign/HQI combo is useless. As such, I’m stuck. 
Anyone had success with Gang Sign Leela?
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I don’t think Au Revoir is worth the MU but if you are determined to try it I think you need to put 2-3 SMC in. It’s a lot of influence, but everything else you need besides corroder and R&D access is in criminal.
When reflection comes out it might become good.
Actually I think with The Turning Wheel it’ll be ridiculous.
Box-E is being my MU for now. It’s enough to run two breakers and 3x Revoir + Snitch, or full breakers and 2 Revoir+Snitch which is usually what happens. If I didn’t run Faerie I’d consider Q-Coherence Chip to get more mem but I suspect that I can do just fine with 6MU… (When your econ isn’t Successful-Run-Based, Desperado makes less sense, so I can try other consoles. Box-E makes the most sense out of currently released consoles. Reflections + Turning Wheel just seems patently ridiculous with Goodbye combo.)
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