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Feeling Blue About Blue Decks


#582

I think there can be a case made for HQ interface as a good piece of criminal hardware, but I think that case is difficult to make right now when criminal economy feels so anemic.

But accessing an extra card from HQ on every access is a really powerful effect.


#583

It is reasonable to assume that cycles were designed on the assumption that TC would be available to Crim, and therefore not having it is part of why Crim is in a tough spot? I guess we’re just over a cycle past when TC was available, so maybe that’s not a reasonable assumption, but it does seem like Rubicon Switch, for instance, was designed assuming Crim runners would be much more flush with cash.


#584

I’ve always found it unfortunate that Temujin was printed at 2 influence. I would have liked to have seen it at 4 or 5 so that playing it out of faction was actually a substantial influence tax, to the point of being almost impractical.

Even at 3-influence when it was on the MWL there were still Shaper and Anarchs playing 3 copies which is what made it so dumb.


#585

In the early days of Magic: the Gathering, black cards were overcosted for years before they realised the problem was that Dark Ritual was too strong


#586

Might disagree with a couple of things here:

  1. The Gauntlet is better than HQ Interface unless you’re running Gang Sign. It’s almost guaranteed to give more accesses for only 1 more credit, plus it gives 2 MU which can be important in many builds. The trick is that you still need R&D pressure to make the Corp pay for putting all their heaviest ICE on HQ (or to get them to spread their ICE). I personally like The Turning Wheel and Equivocation to present an constant threat rather than events. TTW also helps if the Corp doesn’t want to rez cheap ICE over HQ.

  2. Maxwell James certainly slots into Steve or Gabe. These IDs that provoke the Corp to ICE up HQ often need extra benefits from those costly runs. So I consider MJ as a boost to Steve, even if Steve isn’t a boost to MJ.


#587

Absolutely, 2 influence is way too little, and all that banning it has accomplished was to make Shapers and Anarchs all splash for a different 2 influence Crim card for their economy instead (Tapwrm), which is sad but kinda hilarious.

Like I said, errata are a hassle, but I really think that at 4inf Temujin could be unbanned.


#588

Total agreement. And thematically…how exactly does an anarchist get connected to a Temujin contract? I was looking at the early reviews and everyone seemed to know from day one that it was just another crim card that would only push Anarchs to ridiculous OP levels at it’s printed influence.


#589

Can I introduce you to Sneakdoor Beta?

My problem with Gauntlet is how it is weaker when combined with almost any other criminal card (e.g. derez, bypass, access by not running HQ directly, not breaking all subs on ICE). There are more cards that Gauntlet specifically does not work with than combos effectively in criminal.

Gauntlet may well be a good card, but it is best in factions other than criminal.

HQI has a simple effect that combos with many other criminal cards very effectively. Crisium Grid can’t even shut it down.

HQI >> Gauntlet imo, unless you’re building a shaper deck.


#590

Really? You’re going to slot how many HQI plus how many SDB plus what additional hardware to support the MU? That’s a ton of cost, slots, and setup. To do essentially what Gauntlet does. In fact I can’t even remember recently seeing an opponent play HQI without Gang Sign. (I used to run it in a Supplier deck that lost more than I had hoped).

Much better IMO to let Gauntlet do its thing as a single install and spend the other deck slots on R&D pressure, econ, safety, and draw.


#591

Breaking ICE isn’t really a strong suit for Blue Decks. Criminals are better at doing everything else.

Gauntlet is better than HQI in a shaper deck, for many of the reasons you listed. Shapers are good at breaking ICE.

Additionally, Sneakdoor Beta is good on it’s own. It doesn’t need HQI or additional MU (beyond whatever console you were running) to support it.

If you want to run gauntlet, now you need to run supporting economy and efficient ice breakers (admittedly better than other criminal gameplans, hence this thread), which you can do better in any other faction. So Gauntlet is a great splash, but bad in-faction for criminals.


#592

So…which console are you suggesting?

I’m not saying HQI is a bad card in principle. I’m saying it’s not worth building a deck that uses it given the cards we have.

RE: breaking ICE…out of faction fracters and decoders are very common in crim builds. And Steve gives a pretty big return on successful HQ runs.


#593

Given the list of amazing criminal console’s we have above (/s), I’m going to say…probably an Anarch one, depending on my meta and the rest of the deck I build I could go Obelus, Turntable, Maw, Vigil.


#594

Astrolabe? :smiley:


#595

Wait. Do you really play much crim? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Influence in crim is way too valuable to waste 4-6 on a console unless it’s core to your strategy. I’ve tried Maw-Slums-Aumakua-Aeneas (which is a great combo) but it’s definitely T2 at best.

[edit: sorry for the snark. no disrespect]


#596

Astrolabe is a great one too!

Doubling as the cheapest MU available doesn’t hurt either.


#597

You don’t install sneakdoor alongside your icebreakers - you install it INSTEAD of your icebreakers! :stuck_out_tongue:


#598

The correct answer here is no console. Gauntlet is not a good card. Already worse than HQI which is already not a good card.

If the MU is really important (which it usually isn’t), then you can take Reflection for 1 MU (and gain a bonus link) or Zamba for 2 MU.


#599

when we see a critical mass of expose effects I think Zamba will be pretty good, in a very slow remote-lock (criminal?) deck


#600

Stands Corrected
:dizzy_face:


#601

They’d have to be really, really good expose cards. Right now, almost all cards with Expose on them are pretty bad, and getting a 1c refund on them doesn’t do much to justify the console. A “critical mass” of expose effects still needs to be all good cards, or you’re just filling your deck with trash. It seems like kind of a trap card, making people play bad cards in order for it to have “value.” 419 might get some use out of it if he installs it early enough, but I still don’t think it’s worth including any other expose cards, even in that deck.