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FFG Floor Rules

I get the arguments in favor of IDs, and I like the strategy/math involved, but they rub me the wrong way too. I’m against them emotionally, even if I like/respect them logically.

For me it is this: You go to tournaments to play. You’re not playing if you ID. Why are you going to an event dedicated to playing a game if you’re avoiding playing said game for favorable math?

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That’s what I keep asking NEH players!

*insert bad standup riff

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Fastro can promise us all ample time to use the toilet and plenty of breaks to keep hydrated and fueled up. Fastro über alles!

Netrunner is a for-fun game with low stakes. Do we really need the safety blanket of netdecking then? If you are going to a tournament, just brew your own deck and stay off decklist websites. Do you not like deckbuilding?

People like playing, but people also like winning. This is the true answer to my snarky post above (sorry bluebird). I’m sure if the deck quality function were flatter, people would bring their own decks lots more because it’s really fun to deckbuild. But having a good deck is more important.

I think status quo bias is an issue here. For whatever reason FFG has chosen to ban IDs, so people arguing in their favor have to provide extra evidence (see: “why should that advantage of being well rested only go to the people who choose to intentionally draw?”).

This is a false equivalence. Nobody netdecks so they don’t have to play more Netrunner games in a tournament. People netdeck so their opponents don’t get to play Netrunner games in a tournament. (;))

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This is a BS argument. You’re still playing Netrunner even if you don’t build your own decks. With an ID, you are not playing Netrunner at all.

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I think the best reason to allow IDs is that people are going to do it without anyone knowing if you don’t, and that puts everyone else at a disadvantage. The difference between IDs and say, drawing extra cards or something, is that a large portion of the players feel like it should be allowed and isn’t wrong, so you’re not likely to shame them out of doing it, or ever catch them.

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Something I actually like about IDs in Netrunner is that unlike magic, very few people can ensure making the cut with an ID. You have to do particularly well to even think about it.

Also, speaking to the “IDs reward well connected players” argument, I think the exact opposite is true. If IDs are not allowed and Im playing a friend and I win game one, I can throw that game, or just play sloppy, without even colluding. That’s going to come up a lot more than a strategically disadvantageous or otherwise result-nebulous ID between friends, (assuming all strategically advantageous or result-ensured IDs between strangers are made if they are legal).

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I think your statement about majority supporting IDs is not true. Take the poll results from SSCI, for instance. But IDs should probably be allowed if even a sizeable minority are going to do it anyway…

I didn’t say a majority. I said a large portion, which the SSCI poll results support. It was like, 55-45 or something.

Yeah that’s true, I misread that. Fair enough

i was in a comfortable spot in the first regional i played earlier this year. i was fairly new to Netrunner, having only played for ~5 months, and i really wanted to make the cut. i considered asking my opponent for a split, but i didn’t know how he’d take that. i didn’t know that the majority of players near the top (it’s at least true in America) don’t care about the rules regarding intentional splitting, and if they don’t want to, they’ll just say they don’t. i was concerned he might report me to the judge. i knew he was a very good player, and i thought there was a realistic chance he could sweep me and i’d be on the bubble for making top 8

next to me (one table below), my friend, audibly enough that i could tell, asked his opponent to split. his opponent agreed. the guy in first place was already ahead of me and guaranteed a spot, so that’s one in the cut. the two next to me have split, so that’s three. we’re comparing this to the worst case scenario (i’m swept), so that’s four. i now know, for certain, that if two of the other top tables have agreed to intentionally split (and i still don’t know if they did), i will miss the cut if i’m swept. it’s very clear that if i want to get a guaranteed regional playmat (a real accomplishment for me at the time, having been new to the game), a split is in my interests, but as i mentioned earlier, i was reluctant to risk asking my opponent

so, we play the games, and i win both. i’m now 2nd seed overall and my opponent barely missed the cut. he explained to me after, that when he mentioned we would both probably make the cut if we both won one game, he was implying he’d like to split, but of course, i misinterpreted this being in the wrong frame of mind

my opponent missed the cut that day because he did not take a split we know i would have agreed to. at least one table of players who were lower on prestige/SoS than he agreed to intentionally split, which put both of them above him. i know one table did, but i only really know because it’s very uncommon to report players for colluding. if the community were to “crack down” on it, they’d just split in a more concealed manner. in this situation, my opponent would have been rewarded for doing worse in the tournament. had he played either of the two players one table below us (or potentially others that agreed to split below them), he’d have made the cut

there is no way to police this rule, and there is MORE injustice when only some people are able to intentionally split. for every player to be on equal footing, we have to assume we are all able to ignore the rule (possible), or we all have to abide by it (impossible). i’ve never taken a split at an official FFG event (i took one in the GLC finals where i finished 1st seed anyway), but if i’m faced with another situation like i was at the aforementioned regional, i will take the opportunity to break the rules. i hope everyone else does the same

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Regardless of anything else, is this really true at the tournaments you play at? Netrunner tournaments to me suggest cheek-by-jowl gaming with other players, tight schedules and in the case of “big” tournaments all the top players up at the same end of the hall with bystanders and judges alike naturally taking most interest in those games. In your experience, would strangers meeting for a game of Netrunner at the top tables towards the end of the pairings (when this behaviour is apparently most advantageous) really be able to very easily have the time and the privacy to have such a discussion and make such an agreement, then play out the games for show ensuring the “correct” sides winning, without anyone else overhearing or cottoning on? Would it be really be so easy to do that the risk of getting caught and kicked out was so negligible as to make it worthwhile?


Edit: @anon50033301’s post details perfectly someone else at the next table being aware of it. The problem there seems to be being aware of someone else cheating (in a way that you are acutely aware will disadvantage you, no less) but not doing anything about it! Forget thinking “I’ll be at a disadvantage if I don’t cheat”, if Josh had piped up and the cheaters had been thrown out, then both he and his opponent would have been more likely to make the cut!

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The world thanks you for sweeping that guy who was so threatening my spot in the top cut :slight_smile:

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I suppose it makes me simple but If the goal of a given tournament is to weigh your own acumen against others then asking for or accepting such a thing goes against the point of the whole exercise to begin with. It serves only the needs of an individual’s ego or material desire, not that of an A:NR community. Certainly not a competitive environment.

Perhaps i’m missing lack of care as a reason.

Also it doesn’t do any favors to the people who want to stick around to watch those who are on their best game for the day either.

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It definitely happens at major events. Once you realize that, it becomes obvious that the rule is awful for everyone.

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How hard is it to understand that unenforceable rules hurt the game? The rules against concedes and IDs are profoundly silly.

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in my post, not only do i address this, i dispel the myth that the community can be able to “crack down” on these things by self-policing, which i can only assume you are ignoring

i could report my friend from my meta, but that would only prevent one instance of cheating, and it’d only prevent said instance of cheating one time. in the future, he and others would continue to cheat in a more concealed manner as to not be detected. the only thing i’d have accomplished is getting my friend disqualified and shifting the number of players eligible to cheat over one table. you cannot effectively self-police this rule in the long term

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It’s sad that people will break the rules (even ones they disagree with) to gain an advantage. But not massively surprising. I think it’s a point in favour of playing single game rounds though, so that unofficial IDs aren’t an option.

Concession should absolutely be allowed.