Wow, it’s like… instead of using logic and rational debate to comment on the merits of my statements, you took the one semi-goofy obvious statement that I make and tried to invalidate everything I said via one sarcastic comment.
Boy, I sure am glad I come to Stimhack for this enlightening conversation! Stimhack is truly the pinnacle of Netrunner knowledge and wisdom!
Hey, mods? Can we move all this Leela shit into the Leela thread please?
[quote=“PeekaySK, post:47, topic:3350”]
(in the Leela thread, where it belongs)[/quote]
My thoughts exactly.
Well, Andy goes away in the first rotation, so would Leela then become the go-to criminal? personally I’m not sold, and I think that honor would go to Gabe.
No doubt. 'Grats on the performance, but there’s nothing magical here outside of only 2 Desperado. Was actually surprised to not see Planned Assault.
Have any of you stopped to think that maybe “Andysucker” isn’t actually Andysucker, but is simply the optimal Criminal playstyle? At least, the optimum style for a deck that doesn’t have a specific gimmick.
I’m still waiting for someone to post up some ideas on what a “proper” Ken Tenma list is supposed to look like…
I like you Spags, you’re a funny guy.
Three Desperado is just straight redundant. Even El-ad thinks two is enough. The Security Testing is more important. Maybe a third Sec Testing for increased consistency would be good, but you’re never going to be using three of them at a time.
My God… why would you use Planned Assault? Why not just have three copies of your events?
Every criminal in the top 16 at worlds 2014 was running 3 Desperado. Even El-ad. In Andromeda who can get a Desperado in the opening hand easier than every other criminal.
This appears to be the thread for bold claims. Desperado is the card you want most of all in your opening hand. It’s so much money. I’ve done plenty of ‘testing’ with 2, before buying my third core. It’s worse. If, for example you turned your second feedback filter into a desperado, this deck would be better. I’m not in Korrigan’s list. I’m getting my popcorn ready for when Mediohxcore turns up and sets you straight though.
Right. Also, remember that he ran only 1 Siphon, and went 3-6 with Andy at Worlds.
My thoughts exactly. He isn’t exactly the template for great criminal play or deckbuilding.
And here’s another bold claim - if you aren’t playing 3 Desperado, you are doing it wrong.
And another - if you think playing 2 Desperado is more correct than playing 3 - you are likely bad at Netrunner.
I’ll edit to explain myself. Desperado is the best card in the game, and getting it early is often the difference between winning, and losing. You want to maximize your odds of winning by getting it as early as possible. Is drawing a second (or third) annoying? Yes, but it is worth the ability to win more often by having it early. Show me a criminal deck with 2 desperados, I’ll show you a better one with 3.
checking the calendar
Nope, I’m not Bill Murray in ‘Groundhog’s Day’. Day def. flipped to April 2nd.
Here we go. Nothing like a chum-baiting statement to get the good players in the game to hulk out and become an asshole, like me.
Love it.
Maybe I’m just confused by ~crazy stimhack etiquette~, but isn’t the onus on you to show us what a proper tenma deck looks like? Your brother’s deck is obvious (which isn’t a bad thing; it’s obvious for a reason) and you seem awfully perturbed by people pointing that out, but a new thread wasn’t necessary to show that certain blue cards are good.
Edit for spelling, woo
I’ll just rephrase Jesse’s statement and say that Desperado has been the best runner card in the game since day 1 (maybe tied with parasite pre-lotus field). Getting it in play on the first turn off the game gives you a ridiculously good shot at winning said game. This is why Andromeda is played the most. Having Desperado on turn one is better than any other runner ability.
That being said, yeah, this deck looks like it shits all over PE. It was a good choice for the meta down there. Having the large opening hand doesn’t necessarily help vs net damage.
Eh, you (like everyone else that has met me) knows what I am like. Nice guy, honest to a fault. I just tell it like it is, maybe that is why I don’t post much, doesn’t seem to translate as well on the internet as it does in real life.
My mom says the same thing about me.
I moved the Leela discussion over to the Leela thread.
Try to stay on topic.
As I mentioned, this is the kinda deck I do in Ken. I do a similar style in Andy, but thats even more ‘sit back’ with Supplier and just being a remote-busting deck.
My quick (and I mean like threw together in 30 seconds) version of Oracle May Ken
I have a more refined version of this somewhere, but can’t find it. You can see the basic idea though. I’m using Ken for the extra influence, for the fact that this deck prefers Makers to RDI, and because his ability helps keeps the economy up. Drawing cards for money, playing them for more money. Not the greatest deck in the world, but it is a deck I designed for Ken… and it was pretty reasonable win rate when I was playing it more often.
Its 2 Desperado because you run less. You set up unless you have a reason to run (like a run event or Bank Job). You could easily change this for Security Testing and a 3rd Desperado, but I last played this when NEH was stupid popular, so Bank Job was the meta call (and are worth 10 bucks a pop with Aesops). You do a lot of set up in this, so its not as made for the whole ‘stack all the benefits into a sec testing run’ thing.
Is this the best thing to happen to Criminal? Fuck no. I play Shaper for a reason, but its something to show as a point.
I think this is probably true, actually. Because Andy is effectively blank after the first turn, the best thing to do with her is to just play a truck load of good, synergistic shit, and because she was printed with a blue background, that good, synergistic shit is good, synergistic criminal shit. So anything she does, optimally, is going to be a good criminal playstyle. However, the reason it’s Andysucker is because Andy is the one able to get it set up and be threatening with it the fastest, seeing as she’s the one who can get that insane first hand with such reliability.
Honestly, if she was printed red, she’d probably be the best Anarch as well, and the cards she’d run would probably be characterized as the optimal Anarch playstyle. She’d be shittier, though, because she wouldn’t have Desparado in faction.
edit : Shit, forgot to write what I wanted to about Ken! Got caught up in the Andy.
I think a “proper” Ken deck probably looks similar to a prepaid Kate deck, but with more run events. The problem with this is that Prepaid costs 1 in Kate and 2 in Ken, making it a slower card. Public Terminal was pretty clearly printed with him in mind (and it only costs 1, making it kind of what Prepaid VP is in Kate), but you really have to be playing a shitload of run events for those to be good, and if you’re playing that many run events, glacier decks make you pretty sad, since you can’t run as often, so you don’t get the needed value off of the Terminal, making it objectively worse than Prepaid, which can at least be used to play economy cards.
Not having instant tutors in faction (SMC) or insane card draw (Diesel and QT) also either make him slower, or waste his influence to import them. Sure, Special Order is in faction, but it costs a click and a credit to use, and you still need another click to install the card. So you just kinda end up being a slower Kate with little to no recursion. If you want to play a more Andysucker type deck, you’re just a slower Andysucker, and should probably just switch IDs.
So I guess the problem with Ken is that his playstyles are covered in other decks better than in his own. I’m still waiting for a couple cards to exist that ends up giving him his own good niche, but I don’t know what they’d be.