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[Iain Stirling] Retirement's Over

One thing I’m thinking now, as I look at the list, is that centrals are remarkably safe. is the plan to just set up so much remote pressure that all the agendas get squeezed out by the source? I’m having a hard time seeing what about this deck would trouble a glacier much at all…

Well. It’s got my brain itching for some Iain. I’ll have to try your list and then see what I can come up with.

Oh thank god.
I was actually waiting for someone to notice.

There is, in fact, a glaring flaw in this deck: No multi-access. If you want to win on Centrals, you have to get super lucky. This deck wins out of remotes, which is why I’m looking at changing the breakers, since they don’t help that plan.

And yeah, the plan is currently 1) Poke Centrals, see if you can shake out some points while installing Fan Site/Logos. 2) Corp has scored at least 2 points, install Source + Film Critic + Fall Guy. 3) Sit back and gain money, maybe poke Centrals some more. 4) Snipe agendas out of the remote, using Drive By to make sure Jinteki isn’t being cheeky and IAA’ing Junebugs, and Inside Job to get in relatively easily.

I believe as part of 4) I need to lock R&D down. I don’t think I truly need multi-access, but I need to put pressure on the Corp to do something or just let me win.

You’ll get over it somehow,my Leela have to use 1 Breach to have 3 RDI,and when you breaking Curtain Wall with Breach you suddenly feel it’s such a powerful breaker,for a moment :wink:

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It’ll get a boost against glacier in Mumbad as I feel this style of deck is perfect for both Political Operative and Councilman (blue and neutral, respectively, and both connections), it’ll mean even Ash or Caprice can’t keep a remote safe. I guess you can also dent fast advance as you have remote trashing of SanSan to interrupt scores.

With my drip econ decks, inside job with multiple RDIs have helped against glacier, I guess something like Turning Wheel is needed (man, that card can’t come fast enough).

I won a bunch of tournaments with Stirling. Here’s the last list I used, for reference.

b]Armored Turtle v5: The Medium that came in from the cold.[/b]

Iain Stirling: Retired Spook (Honor and Profit)

Event (18)
2x Account Siphon (Core Set)
3x Drive By (The Underway)
1x Hostage (Opening Moves)
3x Inside Job (Core Set)
3x Legwork (Honor and Profit)
3x Special Order (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)

Hardware (6)
3x Dyson Mem Chip (Trace Amount)
2x Logos (Honor and Profit)
1x Unregistered S&W '35 (Honor and Profit)

Resource (12)
3x Daily Casts (Creation and Control)
3x Data Folding (Order and Chaos)
1x Mr. Li (Future Proof)
1x Rachel Beckman (First Contact) [color=#708090]•[/color]
1x The Supplier (First Contact)
3x Tri-maf Contact (Honor and Profit)

Icebreaker (8)
1x Corroder (Core Set) [color=#FF4500]••[/color]
1x Crypsis (Core Set)
3x Faerie (Future Proof)
1x Femme Fatale (Core Set)
1x Mimic (Core Set) [color=#FF4500]•[/color]
1x Peacock (What Lies Ahead)

Program (2)
2x Medium (Core Set) [color=#FF4500]••••• •[/color]
10 influence spent (max 10)
46 cards (min 45)
Cards up to The Underway

Decklist published on NetrunnerDB.

But basically, I can’t conceive a Stirling that doesn’t stockpile the aggression and hits hard with Medium. Or simply a Stirling that doesn’t play Medium. Really, the whole reason you lose to NBN is that you use R&D Interface instead of it.

Historically, its main problem was that it had a mediocre matchup against HB and Global Food probably made it worse. Whether that’s compensated by the huge nerf of the NAPD Most Wanted list is something only testing can prove.

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@CrushU

The gang members are pretty good with OCA online, and even work as backup damage prevention when needed. they will be cut once councilman comes out.
I run 3 OCA as that’s the engine for the entire deck and makes hostage a temp gain and not a temp hit. Mr Li helps dig for a card you want, but i don’t really want to click to draw, right now 1 drug dealer + OCA can some times be too much draw.

Two film critic are for keeping Iain’s ability online while being ahead, this deck loses some power when not getting lain drip. also works with NACH and the source. Sherman was for the local meta, lots of spider webs and other Muti sub ice, cloud is a bonus. with lady on the MWL i may go back to corroder.

Once turning wheel comes out i will add it to take up that last inf spot Cutting the HQ interface.

I was testing an Lovegood - Offcampus Apartment - Film Critic - nach - Source - Hostage thing before MWL hit, out of Andy. I kept testing it after MWL hit, but I grew concerned that NEH will be more popular than Sync and Haarp as a result of the MWL, which loses value for the Data Dealer and loses value for the Hostage Film Critic, leaving you with little special about connection strategy. The Source doesn’t do enough to stop NEH, they can just wait to stack multiple fast advance options to score through it, and it’s hard to pack much multiaccess that would punish them for waiting around for the extra tool.

Yellow is supposed to be the reward for a tough glacier matchup with this kind of strategy. (Blue Sun’s not so bad if they expect to leverage a kill package though)

I’d give it another enthusiastic look if non-NEH yellow stays popular but for now I feel like I have to write it off.

This so much. It makes me wonder why people don’t consider the central only breakers more for him. They seem perfect for this game-plan. Chuck down a remote pressure breaker like Crypsis or summin (you can afford it here) and let them score once. Then stock-pile, get your breakers up, legwork, medium, medium, medium etc. With Logos around it’s really easy to reach this board state. Heck you might even give up 4-5 points before you launch.

If you can time the legworks and clear out HQ before the Medium lock is in place, it’s fun times.

Best guess is this rig/strategy was posted as a dev deck so obviously it isn’t worth considering.

There are several reasons why you should not run centrals breakers but two of the most important are:

  1. You need to slow down the Corp, which means getting into small remotes to trash Adonis Campaigns and threatening scoring ones.
  2. Central-only breakers are not more efficient than a normal rig.

I think that sitting out and stock-piling is a mistake. Being able to open a window for Medium is bonkers and games are much easier to win when you hit them with Legwork on turn three. For me Stirling is as much of a Criminal as Andromeda is and just like you wouldn’t stock-pile with the later you shouldn’t stockpile with the former.

Why Stirling then? He’s the only ID in the game that encourages letting the corp do whatever they want while you set up … Running him like any other criminal isn’t leveraging his ID ability in the slightest. #itsbetterinandyTM

Having played a bunch of Sterling my answer is that he helps you from falling behind. If you just let the corp score you are actively losing the game. If they happen to score and you can’t stop it you fall less behind than Andy does in the same situation.

This is how I see Stirling.

  1. There are a lot of powerful cards that you normally don’t play because they slow you down. For example Tri-Maf, Mr Li and Logos.
  2. Stirling assures that either the Corp slows down (win) or you get money to compensate for your slower plays (win).

Basically, what Stirling does is to allow you to play slower. He doesn’t make you slower, it allows you to do so when it’s of your interest.

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His ability is somewhat similar to Leela’s.
Either the Corp plays around the ability, slowing their plan down and giving you time, or they don’t play around the ability and give you an advantage to stop their future plans.

Leela is hit or miss, with higher ceiling and lower floor. It’s possible it does stone nothing, the Corp has only rezzed cards. It’s possible it completely wrecks the Corp, opening HQ for repeated Siphons, R&D for repeated Medium, or other such things.

Iain is always Stable. He has a lower ceiling, but a higher floor. It’s never going to do nothing unless you’re winning the game, in which case I guess you didn’t need it! If you aren’t winning the game, you’re getting 8 credits worth of value for free. (Adjusted Chronotype + Hard at Work…) While it isn’t a unique effect like Leela’s, it’s still powerful.

As for ‘better in Andy’, Iain has stronger game against FA, getting two free credits a turn, or making them slow down. Andy is generically strong against everyone. So in that respect, Andy is stronger than Iain against Glacier/RP/IG. Iain is stronger against NBN/FA/Rush decks.

And that’s the real problem with the Central breakers. They aren’t any better than normal ones, and demonstrably worse since they have a restriction. Anarch gets away with fixed-strength breakers because they have support cards that allow them to change the strength of ICE instead. Criminal doesn’t have any support cards to allow Remote ICE to count as Centrals for their breakers, and even then they aren’t as efficient as the Anarch suite. The closest they have are their cards that care about having successfully run on HQ, but they don’t make up for the weakness of the breaker suite.

It feels like a real miss to me. All three factions should have had a strength not just in Icebreaker type, but in Icebreaker Strategy. Anarch has Fracters and Fixed-Strength, messing with ICE instead. Shapers have Decoders and Tutor/Instant, able to build a rig on the fly for a high cost. Criminals have Killers and Centrals, able to … break ICE on central servers for no cheaper or more efficient than the normal ‘best’ breakers.

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Aggressive Stirling with Film Critic I’ve generally found way stronger than passive versions. You get the best of both worlds that way.

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But isn’t that basically Criminal’s thing? Why should they be the most efficient breakers even WITH the restriction? Criminals are known for their crappy breakers (sans-killer), so it makes sense that their in-faction restricted breakers are not really any better than the best of the best.

That being said, a support card I just thought of would be something like this: Resource or Program, click, remove from the game: make a run on a central server, if successful, access cards from a remote server as if it had been run instead. Too good? Probably, even with the RFG restriction. So how about something that makes a remote look like a central for the purposes of icebreakers (clearly meant to be used only with the central breaker suite).

The problem is that their Restricted breakers are only marginally better than their own breakers. Look at it this way: Everybody imports Corroder/Zu. There’s no Criminal icebreaker that everyone imports. Even worse, Breach/Passport are worse than Corroder/Zu, so there’s no point in importing them even if you wanted to only run centrals. If you give up something (Central-only) you should get something in return. Being better than Force of Nature is not a significant enough advantage. No one would play a Corroder that has the Central-only restriction when they can just play Corroder, and Breach is arguably worse than Corroder. (Except for specific ICE like Spiderweb or Curtain Wall.)

Fair comments. I still maintain if you want to play a stockpiling strategy Stirling is the man with the plan.

If you want to play a more classic Criminal style, Leela and Andy are significantly better. The only thing Stirling does well that the other criminals don’t is ignore the early game in favour of a brutal late game. I don’t see why if you wanted the things you guys mention you wouldn’t pick Leela or Andy. They’re just better for it.

But if you’re interested in a late game, snap-win approach, Iain FTW.

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I haven’t tried the Medium strategy with Stirling, I’ll add it to my list…

That said, after playing Leela and Stirling, Leela definitely has more ‘gas’, she applies pressure quickly and without remorse. But she can run out of gas and putter around trying to get something, anything done. If you’ve ever clicked Kati in a Crim deck, this is the sound of you running out of gas.

Leela is a Motorcyle. Stirling is a solar-powered one-seater. Leela is flashier and gets there faster, Iain will go anywhere, given enough time.

I don’t feel Stirling ignores the early game. He still has access to the powerful Criminal events that are so punishing in the early game, and I mean, you have that ability that reads ‘Corp spends one click on the first turn putting an ICE on HQ’ that’s a part of the color of your ID… He just has a plan to get back into the game if things go wrong for him.

He’s the Anti-Adam. (Adam is super good as long as you’re scoring. If you aren’t scoring, you’re going to be choked for the whole game.)

While the data may be flawed, there seem to be a rather large number of recent tournament winning decks that use Femme Fatale on Netrunnerdb. But that notwithstanding, Criminals generally have crap breakers because they have other ways of dealing with ice. I wouldn’t expect the central-only breakers to be the best of the best with their restriction, because all they have to be is significantly better than what they already have, and when it comes to Fracters and Decoders, I think they are. I don’t believe the central-only breakers were designed to be imported, I think they were designed to be used by criminals who would concentrate on centrals who also wanted to use their influence on non-icebreakers.