My one suggestion would be to consider a utopia shard in place of one of the stimhacks. This gives you more HQ pressure, and more scorch protection, plus you can also use it to try to hit the astroscript that NEH just fast tracked into hand. This might even let you drop one of the plascretes, if scorch isn’t too prevalent in your meta, and make room for a 1-of cyber cypher. I like the one-of, if NEH puts a lotus field on R&D having a way to cheaply continue applying pressure is really helpful.
Atman 4. 10char
Atman works, but isn’t nearly as cheap. It costs 6 to install instead of 2, and those 4 credits can make a big difference versus NEH. Before Lady I’d have agreed with this more, since you need Atman at 4 anyways against the inevitable eli’s, but with Lady dealing with eli so well I often want to avoid spending so much money for Atman against NEH.
So even while having previously read the entirety of this thread and realizing that the majority of it is consisted of improving some variation of Katman or PPVP… I am going to take the name to heart and introduce “redefine” another shaper control.
Chaos Theory: Wünderkind
– Event (18 cards)
3 Dirty Laundry
3 Sure Gamble
2 Test Run
– Hardware (4 cards)
2 R&D Interface
– Program (11 cards)
1 Femme Fatale
2 Cerberus “Lady” H1
3 Self-modifying Code
2 ZU.13 Key Master
– Resource (7 cards)
2 Daily Casts
2 Kati Jones
3 Professional Contacts
I know, I know, hemorrhage?! What a complete waste of influence not to mention time and money trying to get it to work. That’s what I would expect most to say until they have seen the power of it. Now before everyone laughs it out of possiblity, consider the potential.
Dopp. And 1 hem= 1 card a turn with two free clicks
Dopp. And 2 hem= 2 cards a turn with an extra click
Dopp. And 3 hem=3 cards a turn
Whether it be 2 cards or 3 cards very few decks can keep up with the amount of draw to maintain any cards in hand, and break a Rnd lock. Those that could (Neh) only accelerate the deck by offering unprotected remotes.
Hem necessitates protecting all 3 centrals including every remote which in turn spreads ice thin.
Hem fights against all sorts of corp cards (scorch, neural, fast track, biotic, or any other card they hope to hold onto)
You can force the corp to either lose the agendas or increase the density in HQ.
Take a look, take a chance! If you have questions about play style or card choices let me know. However this has been an extremely enjoyable (darkhorse) deck that people are unprepared to combat in the current meta.
I’ll go get the fire blanket and salve for the flames you’re about to get. Up front, I want to say, I like it, and I give you props for having the stones to post it and defend it. Makes me wonder what I can spin up with doppelganger and hemorrhage…
I like Hemorrhage, I’ll give this deck a few spins. One question: do you find 3x Hemo necessary in the faction with program tutoring? Why not run only 1, free up 2 slots and lots of influence? Also, it seems it could be pretty tough to get Doppel out quickly. Astrolabe’s power decreases considerably after early game, but you’re only running 1. just some thoughts on the list
He gives his rationale for running a full set of Hemo literally the next paragraph after the decklist, man.
That being said, I think the whole Trade-In aspect isn’t worth the power granted by the third Hemo - I’d much rather drop the Trade-Ins, the Astrolabe and one Hemo and go up to 3 Doppelgangers instead, with one slot to spare. Sure, I lose out a bit on maximum power of the ideal state fantasy, but make the average case much, much better. (the 40th card could be an “oh shit” card, whether it’s Clone Chip, Net Shield, possibly even Levy… either that or the third Cast).
Also, I’d probably test with one of the Key Masters being a Cyber-Cypher instead - you’ve got the support tools already, seems a shame not to use them.
Overall, looks very interesting though.
I don’t doubt the potential of Hemorrhage at all (especially in a post-O&C world where Valencia enables multiple numbers of runs a turn). My question would be, what is Shaper giving you that you wouldn’t get in Criminal (or Anarch post-O&C)?
I guess you’re referring to this, which makes no sense to me. I don’t the benefit to loading up 3 Hemorrhage. You are going to have to spend the same amount clicks using them as you would with one, which I have always found is the main problem with Hemorrhage. You will save clicks loading them up, but it still seems like a lot of set-up. Furthermore, you are eating up 3 MU, which is going to limit how effective your SMC are, which in turn limits how reliable Hemo is. I guess I just don’t see how this deck could frequently set up 3 Hemo by the early game AND actually be able to make use of them.
I think the ability to tutor Hemorrhage is a pretty significant advantage for Shaper over Criminal, and being able to tutor it in a paid ability window is a slight advantage over Anarch.
I like this concept, but I’m also skeptical of two different 1x consoles while packing 3x Hem and only four total hardware for 2x Trade-In. I think if I brew this up (which I may, I love Hemorrhage), I’ll probably go with Peekay’s tweaks: 2x Hem, 3x Dopp, no Astrolabe, no Trade-In.
especially bc with 3 Hemo and 5 max MU you can’t ever assemble a full suite
6 max – CT gets one free, then +1 from a console.
You may be right that after 2, the 3rd will see limited benefit once you empty their hand. But man, will it help you stay on top of the corp. Being able to clear three cards out of their hand every turn means any corp strategy relying on combos is dead in the water.
Come to think of it the idea of multi-hemo-dopp-powered-mayhem could enable a noise mill deck that actually runs a lot. The corp will be drawing more then they like (presumable to protect agendas in hand) and you can still run a bunch of viruses. Hrmmmm.
They key to hemo has always been getting atleast two installed while still having enough economy and clicks to break ice. I’ve always done this in noise, but could never get sufficient draw/economy to make a go of it, despite more than 20-30 games of trying.
However, at that time glacier was real popular. Although I believe NEH has crested, Jintecki PE and RP are both strong. Hemo with a FF will do well against PE, and pretty much any horizontal deck type.
If you are going to trade in, I think your match will be much improved FF against RP.
Likewise, when I tried this in shaper, I used SMC to pull Djinn, which then gave me the ability to host a hemo as well as tutor all of them.
I like this idea. Djinn in faction tutor for Hemo, and between mimic/corroder/yog.0 there is sure to be one soft central you can exploit for hemo tokens with doppel ganger. add sucker for increased efficiency, and grimoire puts you at 6 MU (djinn saves you some too though)
Also, once you are in control then you can exploit Demolition-Medium runs to ‘win more’
If there’s one thing I will never get old of, it’s win-more Demo Runs. Now easier with Incubator!
oh man, imagine dumping Incubator onto Hemo and then Amped Up to demolish their whole hand
okay officially way off topic now
Let the brewing begin!
A couple of responses…
Go for it! Doppelganger and hemorrhage are two highly intriguing cards, that seriously mess up the corp.
For me, while testing, I was quickly annoyed at the frequency in which I would see hemorrhage. (Hence 3 copies +tutors) however even if you could live with not seeing it as much, I wouldn’t recommend going below two. The power of hem. is not just in its ability to make the corp discard but to do it frequently, and in bursts. 2 per turn is a huge problem for some decks, after 3 they just accept they can’t hold cards.
I think your tweaks are very reasonable! In fact better than you initially stated, as it would free up 2 cards. (-1 hem, -2 trade in, -1 astrolabe, +2 doppelganger + 2 “whatever”) For me, I just really wanted the third hem. as stated earlier. As I desired early to draw into 1 of them if possible, tutor for the second, get the third out later when I had an opportunity. With 3 hem. I feel more secure in controlling the game, as without some sort of draw power. They can’t draw through a Rnd lock, without risking the cards to archives. If I made those changes I also would add +1net shield and +1daily cast with the extra slots, possibly crypsis.
Reasoning for shaper… aka Chaos Theory
40 cards +1 memory and shaper is a huge benefit in my mind. As ajar stated the ability to tutor is a main advantage. Yet in anarch I feel constricted with the static breakers, which force data suckers and mu problems and speed of set up.
Man! Is it satisfying having 3 out and watching the corp squirm. This is the idea for controlling, staying on top of the corp no matter what they try to do.
I agree, 2 hem. is necessary. Pro-con helps a lot for the draw and econ (obviously). If I was trying to improve the deck against RP I would drop trade in, making the changes mentioned by Peekaysk and add net shield.
PE is going to be rough.
You can’t load Hemorrhage when you’re drawing up after a Psychic Field. Which is what happens when you make successful runs against PE without some kind of hate.
Cram some in there.
The key I’ve found playing against PE is to not play their game but to force them into yours. Most PE decks are very ice light so the goal still applies, try and force them to spread out their ice while only building what you have to. Once you can gain control through hemorrhage what are you afraid of? Every card they draw must be played or lost, with the acceptance that you will hit a few snares along the way you can effectively lock RnD avoiding the brunt of their traps. Every game still goes down to the wire as it’s a very small deck, yet being able to control the flow of the game and forcing the corp into sub optimal plays is still achievable.