Intentional draws suck and need to be removed.
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Yes⌠you can.
You change the tournament structure to something else. They are solvable. Yes people can fake ID if all you did was ban IDs⌠Iâve never suggested that was the solution.
Your sequence does NOTHING to stop IDs. People stop using byes, sweep round 1 then continue to ID as normal. Byes are seriously a luxury and and an annoyance and nothing else. They are not the issue your thinking about this the wrong way as far as IDs are concerned byes do not matter in the discussion imo.
As for this other nonsense about people buying byes. Store Championships are too big and known for that to be a problem in the Pacific Northwest. If someone showed up with a bye that was purchased or something they would need to travel from way out of the region to successfully do that. if that is an issue in your area I suggest reporting the issue to FFG. They are your âfriendsâ after all you should know what store is doing it and handle it if it actually bothers you.
Again; removing byes and changing tournament structure is the option to fix these two separate issues. If you want to continue arguing that somehow 5 points for a bye solves things thats fine but it doesnt and just messes up the tournaments for people who randomly get a bye.
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Is there an easy swiss algorithm / variant that pairs the top seeds down ? This will solve the ID problem, because the under dogs will be looking for a sweep. This can be done in the last round to force players to earn their position
They can fake ID not only if you ban them, but also when there is something to gain by faking a regular 3-3.
So ID canât reward with anything else than a regular 3-3.
Those are 3-3, whether you like it or not, itâs in the game now and canât really be avoided aswell.
Bye @5-3 (so 5pts, and +3 SoS) donât solve all the problems, I never said that. And changing tournament format doesnât solve all the problems too. 5-3s is just giving the âbye win id idâ sequence a little hard times with choices in round 3, 4 and round 1 within tops because they would be within the 15eers pack, if any.
It does nothing to other players. It doesnât change the tournament format and FFGâs products. Itâs really a win-win situation.
5-3 bye screws the random player who was forced to take it round 1 because there is odd number of players at the event. This is enough of a reason for me to not think about this solution any further.
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How can it screw that player better than 0pts / +6 SoS ?
He just did 3pts and +5SoS, going round 2 with a neutral score instead of playing round 2 with low prestige losers ?
I donât know what were the rules at tournaments you attended, but in standard Netrunner tournament rules the player who gets a bye due to odd number of players present is given full win points and this round doesnât count against their SoS.
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Idâs existed before they were legal and will after if theyâre banned.
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@anon34370798⌠I KNOW that people will fake it. This is why my suggestion was to change the tournament structure not to get rid of IDs.
So in this system, if bye counts for SoS, do you mean there is a problem of top manipulation thru byes ?
(like âIâll use it now so you get more SoS, ok ?â)
The only problem is you giving prestige : you only get a diff of +2 prestige, not +6 anymore.
Youâre IDing in next rounds : if your manipulated bye gets this opponent to win next round when youâre IDing, youâre screwed vs him, no ?
Half point bye, Iâve just googled it, is used in chess Swiss round and is not exotic. They does byes like if our bye would give 6-3.
@bluebird503 changing the structure = changing tournament kits, and there is also problems with tournament lenght, and cutting with better result players. Byers would still get draws with excellent players instead of ok players, this is still unfair.
Receiving a loss for that strategy in the Swiss and a win for that strategy in the cut is awful awful awful awful awful awful awful awful awful awful awful awful awful awful awful awful awful game design. (timed win is always a loss atm since players ID into matching scores.)
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One way to reduce the influence of IDs is to make the top cuts smaller and have just swiss rounds for smaller tournaments. 32 players - top 4 and I doubt a lot of people would be interested in an ID before the last round. However, that might have a lot of other consequences for tournaments and I am certainly not advocating this as a solution because I have no idea about the side effects.
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Cheating (say by mandatory drawing two instead of one) is equally unsolvable. Even if cheating is not allowed, some few people will doubtless cheat. Presumably under your logic the best answer is to allow everyone equal access to cheating and thus remove all sanctions on cheating?
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We are here to play netrunner, they should be totally illegal, it undermines the integrity the tournament and goes against why people are there in the first place (to play).
By legalizing IDs we legitimize the practice. Surely its better to have 1-2 IDs performed by cheats doing it discreetly then 70% of the field IDâing the last few rounds because thatâs now the done thing in tournament play? In any other âsportâ its collusion/match fixing.
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I appreciate the discussion on intentional draws, but perhaps itâs somewhat off-topic in a thread about the NAPD MWL changes?
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Calc3 once had a very long conversation with me on Reddit about IDs and I think he mad some good/interesting points.
Personally I donât like intentional draws, for the reasons everyone on here doesnât like them. But I think the points made on that thread are strong and reasonable. I also follow his argument that rather than being banned, the tourniment structure should make it so that IDs are just not very good.
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The side effects is that the swiss rounds become more important, which is good because swiss rounds is a very good indicator of whoâs playing well that day that is undervalued by a big cut. Other effect is that more people may drop out as you get mathematically eliminated earlier, but this is mitigated by playing more swiss rounds.
Note that the cut does not do anything to determine a âmore worthyâ winner, swiss does that totally fine by itself by matching up the best players against each other (this is after all the point of the swiss set up). The cut is there strictly to generate excitement and keep players playing even after theyâre out of contention for the win (as theyâre playing for a spot in the cut).
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I think the thing with IDâs is pretty simple: If you donât like them, donât agree to them. Your opponent canât force you to take one. Iâve been offered a few times; I just said no and played the games. You can too!
Also, some people arenât there to player Netrunner. Theyâre there to win the tournament. If an ID gets them into the final rounds, and thus closer to winning the whole shebang, that is what they are going to do.
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Please bring your pre-MWL IG BioLock/Gagarin Hot Tub deck to a tournament post-MWL.
I like free wins against DQâd players. (Mumba Temple costs influence.)
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Itâs done in chess though. Admittedly, in most sports I can think of, an intentional draw itself makes no sense at all. Most sports are performed by teams (even in sports where you play solo, you are often part of a team anyway).
I have seen people reject IDs, and thatâs fine. Maybe people are just pressured too easily into taking an ID even if they donât want to? Iâm not quite sure where the hate is coming from. If we develop a mindset where asking for an ID is okay, but denying it is too, instead of having these boundaries, wouldnât we all be happier?
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