I’d say it’s relatively simple. First of all, Andromeda requires no considerations in deck building to leverage her ability. You simply get more options on your first turn, and more value out of mulligans.
NEXT requires you to play more ICE than you typically would to get full value out of your ID. Even with considerable ICE, the best you should plan for on average is 2 free installs. If you prefer the “everything is math” route, Andy always gets 8 clicks on her first turn, and NEXT gets 3-6. I would also argue that playing NEXT actually diminishes the value of the mulligan, because it’s risky to mulligan any hand that isn’t 0 or 1 ICE, regardless of hand composition. If you do mulligan a 2 ICE hand because it simply isn’t good, you risk actually blanking your ID.
I think the biggest issue is that an early ICE advantage is meaningless if you can’t actually rez it all. Second biggest issue is you draw after you put the ICE down so you don’t get the added consistency of Andy
Whoa… I think that’s a little extreme. I understand its not a top deck but all of my testing reveals it to be little better then trash. It just becomes a more difficult ID to crack compared to Andy who can almost take any criminal deck type.
If Next Design had more influence, it might be able to fit Caprice, which is amazing with it - even if they have more money than you, all their breakers out, you can still score an agenda by using caprice.
Long day at work, probably being dense. Why is it 8 extra clicks and not just 4?
Maybe others who have more of a background than me in similar card games would find it obvious that NEXT needed more influence. I think I have a pretty decent grasp of the game, and if NEXT Design was printed now as a new ID, I would not look at it and assume it’s going to be poor for the reasons above. I would instead eagerly playtest it, probably decide it’s worse than EtF even as a rush deck, and move on. I just don’t think its obvious from the appearance.
I haven’t put a huge amount of effort into making the ID work, so more power to you’ve got a successful list. I do still think it’s one of the weaker HB identities out there, but wasn’t meaning to belittle your use of it.
@xavi recently took 2nd at the 48-player Mead Hall SC with NEXT/Ed Kim. Not to mention his Worlds run with it, in contention for the cut right up until the end.
A different NEXT deck was also top seed at a 14-player SC here recently, but that player was eliminated in a Runner game vs NEH.
Yeah Andy only gets 4 extra clicks. NEXT gives 0-6 depending on whether you have 0-3 ICE. I really like the idea of NEXT being 40/15 still not great but maybe it’d have a chance
NEXT rush got me second in my first (and to date only) ever SC. As you say, it is possible to win games with it with skill, a bit of luck and good match-ups. But its limitations (which @moistloaf accurately summed up) were painfully obvious even then . The free bioroid card might give it a bit more of lease of life but I think it’s hard to see past the 12 influence as a crippling weakness when your economy (like any non-ETF HB) is so flimsy.
Oh I’m not offended! I just try and bring love to this ID. Everyone admits that it’s a strong ability so in my mind there has got to be a solid deck/s for it.
@Bayushi_David
Speaking of the bioroid card. I personally think it is a trap for NEXT design, I hate bioroids (particularly in NEXT). In my mind the thing you are trying to leverage is the early game boost you get, so I do not want to give the runner any extra opportunity to get through in the early game.
I was using the reductive reasoning that many use with netrunner, with 1click =1card and andy gets 4 extra cards so 4 extra clicks +4 standard. i didnt’ say 8 extra clicks, just 8 total, just like next gets 3-6 (3 standard, and 1-3 depending on ice in starting hand with installs being worth a click each).
ID power levels, in general, seem to be all over the place. It certainly seems, however, in early cycles and expansions IDs were meant to be more supplemental abilities, not game dictating.Though more recently, with Lunar Cycle and O&C, FFG has been willing to give IDs very powerful and game changing abilities, with NEH, Blue Sun, Leela, and MaxX being a few notable examples.
Imagine if BWBI’s ID text was something like “When you turn begins, place 1 advancement counter on a piece of ice that can be advanced”. This instantly would’ve made card like Woodcutter, Tyrant, Swarm, and Salvage actually playable as well as changed the nature of the match-up for the runner. Instead, the ID, and all of that ice, are basically unplayable due to how click-intensive they are to be effective.
I’m not arguing for every ID to be T1 level, but the power level of some IDs brings into question whether or not these were tested with a thought for Netrunner’s direction and longevity.
couldn’t agree more, and a fair hypothesis. I secretly hope that we will see ID packs in the future, both fixing IDs for power level and making sure they survive rotation
Saying NEXT gets 0-6 extra clicks sounds ridiculous to me, nobody would argue MaxX gets three extra clicks because she can use the discarded cards with Clone Chip. NEXTs ability is to start with 0-3 ICE installed, how is that anything other than 0-3 clicks?
Because of the way it works. You start with a hand of 5, and before your turn you get to install up to 3 ICE and then draw back up. If you’ve got no ice in hand, blank ID and no extra clicks. If you’ve got 3 ICE, say, you get to install 3 ICE (3 clicks worth of activity) and then draw back up to 5 (3 more clicks). This gets you 6 extra clicks.
You can tell it’s six clicks because of first turns that can be “Sweeps, Hedge, install card in remote” while still having very good protection on the remote, HQ and RnD. That’s the kind of turn that takes more than 3 clicks to set up, which you can see by trying to set it up in a regular corp.
In your analysis of NEXT, you’re missing the clicks to draw back to 5. So it’s 3-9 clicks for NEXT, rather than 3-6.
EDIT: in my recent play, the clicks to draw up to 5 feel equally important to the clicks for installing ICE. They give me the chance to see more burst econ in the early game to power the ICE with. If it was just “Before your first turn, install 3 pieces of ICE” which you would agree is 3 clicks worth of free actions, you’d start your turn with a hand of 3 after the mandatory draw, which is less likely to have the tools you need in it.
