I’m cool with that. If he says QPM is a conditional and not a constant, then things are slightly convoluted with the word “if”, but I have no problem going with this.
I’m actually confused here.
We know that Underworld Contacts (‘when your turn begins’) checks for validity at time of resolution (‘if you have at least 2 link’). How is this different to QPM (‘when the runner accesses’)? Shouldn’t it check for validity at the time of resolution (‘if the runner is tagged’)?
Because they do not start with the same keyword.
In a thorough game, the order of every word is important. So “If … when…” is not the same as “When … if…”.
The fact that jakodrako shows us a screenshot of is cell phone discussion is a great example of how crappy the game wording has become. Right now we need words from Lukas almost everytime a question arises.
Good luck refereeing a notional outside US now … especially when Lukas does not answer question on CardgameDB (or via FFG official website) and when all we have are off the subject answer from twitter. 
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Hey hey there… we’re here in this thread to share the excitement of Understanding, not to lament our lack of it 
Jakodrako showing us that screenshot is a reason for us to be grateful to him, for doing good work for the community, and to Lukas, for willing to get help and feedback from the community. And if you don’t like how Lucas deals with these things, well, you won’t have to suffer him for much longer 
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Netruner is becoming harder to understand. I want to play cards, don´t program an AI.
Anyway, where/how can I find these specific rules and clarifications in a fast way. Let´s say I´m refereeing a torunament and someone ask about Casting Call and Quantum Predictive Models. I searched in Ancur for Casting Call and Quantum Predictive Model and nothing show up.
Maybe I´m doing something wrong, but is becoming hard to keep track of all the changes.
Anyway, thank to jakodrako for working on the Ancur and resolving questions here.
The specific interaction between Casting Call and Quantum Predictive Model is in the latest FAQ.
We here are discussing the WHY of that ruling. It doesn’t mean that the ruling isn’t official and legal for refereeing.
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I thought we were discussing about the interaction between QPM and Film Critic while the runner is tagged…
Oh but what’s the problem here? Film Critic would trigger first if it’s the runner’s turn. QPM’s “when accessed” is a conditional ability, not a constant one, that much is clear. The only question is whether “if tagged” is checked before the ability triggers, or before it resolves.
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I don’t get the difference. 
There’s no difference, except for understanding a mysterious tweet Lukas made, as to why the CC/QPM ruling.
The FC/QPM seems straightforward.
Ok I’ll try to break it down:
- runner accesses QPM
- conditional abilities trigger
- constant abilities apply and may affect the game state (Power to the People gives 7$ here)
- active player (runner) resolves his conditional abilities (Film Critic triggers here)
- the other player (corp) resolves his conditional abilities (Casting Call triggers here)
Under the current ruling, the “If the Runner is tagged when QPM is accessed” check is made during step 2. If the runner is not tagged, the ability doesn’t trigger at all.
If QPM’s “if tagged when accessed” ability was constant, it would trigger (or rather, apply) during step 3, before Film Critic. But this is not how it works.
If QPM’s “if tagged when accessed” ability was a normal conditional ability like that of Data Folding or Underworld Contact, it would trigger during step 2, but the “if tagged” check would be made only during step 5, when the ability resolves. The corp could choose to resolve Casting Call first and give the runner 2 tags, then resolve QPM and put it into his score area. But this is not how it works.
As it stands under the current ruling, QPM has a very special type of conditional ability that has an “if” check made before it triggers (step 2), not when it resolves (step 5, like Data Folding). There are currently only three other cards with this kind of wording: Corporate War, Market Research, and Subliminal Messaging.
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Take the corollary of CC/QPM: if the runner is not tagged when accessing that agenda, they can steal QPM and it’s not added to the score pile. Both cards have the same trigger, but one of those triggers have an extra condition that must be met at the time of triggering.
I do not really agree with your ordering.
Since constant abilities are always on you can’t add them with other triggers. (Thus, in my opinion, Power to the People apply in 1.5.)
As for CC/QPM, I believe it’s the same as Personnal Workshop/Parasite and “when your turn begins” effect.
If QPM is a “when accessed ability”, then the tag should be checked at that time to see if the ability triggers or not.
After all :
In order to use a triggered ability a prerequisite must be met. (ANCUR)
But, anyway, thanks for your explanation. 
You should check the Fester/Ixodidae ruling, as it disagrees. See also Inside Job (constant) and Tollbooth (conditional). Constant abilities are taken into account (affecting gamestate) before conditional abilities resolve.
It’s not clear on the timing of conditionals and constant effects if the constant effect’s requirement is the same as the conditional triggers, but Lukas’ phrasing seems to suggest the conditionals are triggered but not resolved until constant effects are taken into account. The working of the bypass ruling (assuming Inside Job) also seems to support that, but again it could refer to Femme’s conditional, not the constant effect.
Ideally we’d get a clarification, but so far the wording seems to support the timeline @mplain posted above.
The discussion above, regarding Leela Patel and Cerebral Static, concluded that the check for triggered abilities is made at the same time the event happens. I was advocating that the current is trashed between steps 1 and 2, and was proven wrong. Nothing can take place in between the event and the check for triggered abilities.
I do not quite understand the analogy =_=
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If your start your turn with a Parasite on Personnal Workshop and decide to install Parasite, it will not get a virus counter from the “when your turn begins” (even if you have more “when your turn begin” effect in waiting). The reason is that Parasite was not active when the turn began.
The same goes with CC/QPM.
When QPM is accessed, the first thing you’ll do is checking every abilities that can trigger. If you are not tagged (at that time), QPM misses its windows for triggering. So you won’t add it to the list of every other abilities that need resolving.
This is basically how it works under the current ruling, yes.
I do not agree with the analogy because, unlike Parasite, QPM is very much active when it is accessed (according to the FAQ “when accessed” abilities are actually always active when, well, when accessed). The whole question is why doesn’t it trigger even though it’s active.
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Yea it´s true, sorry. It´s hard to keep track of all that modifications. Thank you.
Hayley Kaplan has two cards in her grip, both programs. The corp played Houskeeping. Hayley installs a program. Which of the two “The first time” constant abilities resolves first?
Maybe you could convince Lukas to make a ruling that all “The first time” abilities be naturalized as legitimate conditional abilities? =_=
Whose turn is it? I’m pretty sure this issue has been answered above about a dozen times.