This is probably a difference in philosophy but I really like Fetal in this deck, you need to get those extra netdamage in.
I’m not a fan of 3-pointers in this deck but that’s a personal choice and I can see where you are coming from. Would probably cut Braintrust before I cut Fetal. I’ve found that when you are able to score agendas, that’s often after you’ve killed a breaker and then it doesn’t really matter what agenda you are trying to score. Fetal is really good at getting those annoying support cards out of hand (Test Run, Special Order, spare breakers, LARLA etc) to create a scoring window.
Swapping Quandary for another Yagura might be good, I just cut one of each from my current deck to fit in those Inazuma but the ICE can overall be tweaked better and needs more testing. The reason to have Quandary is that when you kill the runners breakers you actually need some etr on your servers. The number of Komainu that’s correct also needs testing, it’s a strong tax ICE in a deck that’s otherwise light on taxing and combos really well with Inazuma. Still depending on if we will see many shapers, the deck will probably need 1-2 Swordsman included then and that’s the same slot as Komainu.
My list is light on economy and I might cut Caprice to fit some in, but I don’t like either Subliminal or Sundew. When you want credits (before you kill their breakers) you often cannot shut the runner out with your ICE entirely so Subliminal hasn’t been that great for me. Also about half my games I get ~2 bad pub if they snatch a early Clone Retirement out of RnD combined with a Grim and then economy assets are pretty bad. Fundraiser might be playable in here, but I might try Successful Demonstration if I cut the Tollbooth.
I’ll admit, I really don’t like Quandary. I can see it being super-valuable for defending a turn 1 Adonis and other stuff, but there’s just too many insta-solutions to it for my liking. As a runner, I’m usually glad to see it over any other ICE, because it’s never going to take me more than either a Parasite or 1 credit with any breaker (granted, I don’t run Peacock :P) to get through. In the cheap code gate slot, Enigmas are a much bigger pain, especially for Zu.13
For the ETR needs post-rig demolish, I’m usually fine with just the Archers and the Bakos. Let’s be real here, you only need 2 pieces of ETR ice out - one for the scoring remote, one for either RnD or HQ. Then again, my perception is probably different because I run 3-pointers, which means I can close games much faster (and can let the runner do som last-ditch RnD digging if I already have the agendas in hand). I also run Tsurugis, which are both ETR and taxing, but they’re usually covering the less critical central to dissuade random game-winning desperation runs
The things about Komainu that I don’t like:
even easier to parasite than Tsurugi
no ETR option
has pretty obvious counterplay if someone’s prepared for Jinteki (keep at 1 card if you have Deus Ex and it’s a less taxing Katana)
can never actually kill unless supported by other stuff (like a scored House of Knives)
as far as Inazuma combos go, both Katana and Tsurugi are better options I feel - one can actually kill, while the other has the added benefit of either being a double-gear check ETR (if you can’t break both, you’re not getting in), or a Katana wannabe for 1 credit
This might be just my irrational love of Tsurugi talking, but I’d rather pay 1 more credit for a hard ETR, more str, and a guaranteed tax of 4 when breaking. Komainu is really good when it takes their whole hand, but for that, I don’t think you need to run more than 2, maybe even 1.
(I’m sorry if my post doesn’t sound like it, I’m actually super-psyched for H&P! :D)
So, some interesting cards sneaked into those last cardslots that we didn’t know about.
Anyone else got a list they are playtesting that they want to share?
Jinteki: Personal Evolution (Core Set)
Agenda (13)
3x Braintrust (What Lies Ahead)
3x Clone Retirement (Second Thoughts)
3x Fetal AI (Trace Amount)
3x House of Knives (Honor and Profit)
1x Philotic Entanglement (Honor and Profit)
Asset (12)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••
3x Shi.Kyū (Honor and Profit)
3x Shock! (True Colors)
3x Snare! (Core Set)
Operation (10)
3x Celebrity Gift (Opening Moves)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x Power Shutdown (Mala Tempora) ••••• •
1x Subliminal Messaging (Fear and Loathing)
Barrier (3)
3x Himitsu-Bako (Opening Moves)
Code Gate (2)
1x Inazuma (Honor and Profit)
1x Yagura (Fear and Loathing)
Hey guys, today is gozik’s birthday - that’s the guy who originally came up with the idea of a Jinteki Shutdown deck. Let’s wish him many assets to trash, and many unprotected corroders to shutdown
Shikyu instead of snare for better synergy with shutdown (never defend archives again!)
sundew for forcing runs, caprice for centrals
MRF instead of celebrity gift because it’s an easier to play restructure the downside doesn’t matter if there aren’t breakers.
3x subliminal, because 3 subliminals are probably still good, 1 or 2 seems reasonable though.
1 inazuma because I wanted some ETR codegates just in case also, since it requires setup for ideal use, I think 1 is fine, certainly would play -1 subliminal +1 inazuma.
2 rainbow to force the runner to install a breaker early game. I want rainbow to be the first Ice that I rez most games.
Needs more Sundew! (drop one Sub to get a second one in, at the very least)
I also wouldn’t run Swordsman (and take either another Inazuma, or a Shiro), and would probably take Yagura over Quandary (but that’s my own personal fetish, apparently) for reasons already mentioned earlier in this thread.
I like your agenda distribution. Also medical research fundraiser is a nice replacement for celebrity gift, imo. What’s your experience with rainbow? Looks like it would be decent as long as you manage to keep datasuckers away from the table, but is that always possible?
I’m wondering whether it would be possible to play the deck with Tennin instead of PE. You lose out on on average 5-6 “free” net damage over the course of the game (which is nothing to sneer at!) but in exchange you get an ability that’s extremely synergistic with program trashing. By playing only up to 4/2 agendas OR 5/Xs AND trick of light you can score all of your agendas from an unadvanced state the previous turn, which is very valuable. You just swap the wraparounds (or whathever you’re using your left over influence for) for a couple ice walls to make sure you always have a use for the ability (trick of light works from any card though). Something along those lines maybe?
Tennin shutdown
Agenda (10)
3x Clone Retirement (Second Thoughts)
3x Fetal AI (Trace Amount)
1x Philotic Entanglement (Honor and Profit)
3x The Future Perfect (Honor and Profit)
Asset (6)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••
3x Shock! (True Colors)
Upgrade (2)
2x Caprice Nisei (Double Time) - Could also be snare, I’m still undecided. Caprice seems more synergistic with Tennin’s ability though.
Operation (14)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x Medical Research Fundraiser (Honor and Profit)
3x Power Shutdown (Mala Tempora) ••••• •
2x Subliminal Messaging (Fear and Loathing)
3x Trick of Light (Trace Amount) - Maybe cut 1 for the 3rd subliminal? I want reliable access to them though.
Code Gate (5)
1x Inazuma (Honor and Profit)
2x Quandary (Double Time)
2x Yagura (Fear and Loathing)
Sentry (6)
1x Archer (Core Set) ••
2x Grim (Opening Moves)
2x Komainu (Honor and Profit)
1x Shadow (Core Set) • - Maybe swap for a corporate troubleshooter?
And an alternative agenda package if you don’t want to play with the ToL nonsense :
2x Braintrust (What Lies Ahead)
2x Clone Retirement (Second Thoughts)
3x Medical Breakthrough (Honor and Profit)
3x Nisei MK II (Core Set)
1x Philotic Entanglement (Honor and Profit)
I wonder how people have found house of knives in this build. I’ve played it a lot in PE taxing builds and it has been absolutely crushing when scored because the extra net damage is so useful at creating a scoring window.
Playing tenin forces me to use too many cards that I wouldn’t otherwise, I’ll take my 1 net damage and call it a day.
Rainbow baits out breakers, if i can rez it as my first ice, the runner is going to be more able to run without a full rig against servers with rainbow, and that’s what I want them to do when I power shutdown.
House of Knives wanted to go into my deck badly, but I really needed the clone retirements to threaten archers.
Placed second in the first of the swedish regionals two days ago. Quite happy with the deck, it went 5-2 during the day and helped me to a first seed in the swiss without a bye. One loss in the swiss that went down to a large medium dig where the runner needed 2 points before he took two netdamage (he only had one card in hand and nothing left in his deck), the other was a long game against Kate in the finals.
If I play this again before Upstalk I will probably cut the Yagura for the third Quandary and the Swordsman for a second Komainu as well as replace the Braintrust with medical Breakthrough.
Not sure if I like the shaper match-up enough to play it in our second regionals in two weeks time, but it’s really strong against criminals and even more so if they run the “new” central only rig.
Jinteki: Personal Evolution (Core Set)
Agenda (13)
3x Braintrust (What Lies Ahead)
3x Clone Retirement (Second Thoughts)
3x Fetal AI (Trace Amount)
3x House of Knives (Honor and Profit)
1x Philotic Entanglement (Honor and Profit)
Asset (12)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••
3x Shi.Kyū (Honor and Profit)
3x Shock! (True Colors)
3x Snare! (Core Set)
Operation (10)
3x Celebrity Gift (Opening Moves)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x Power Shutdown (Mala Tempora) ••••• •
1x Subliminal Messaging (Fear and Loathing)
Barrier (3)
3x Himitsu-Bako (Opening Moves)
Code Gate (4)
1x Inazuma (Honor and Profit)
2x Quandary (Double Time)
1x Yagura (Fear and Loathing)
I won one game on flatline, the rest on agenda points.
While Philotic Entanglement probably wont flatline the runner, it will still deal 2-3 netdamage which is great.
In general the netdamage works as a way to get rid of back-up breakers and recursion and not as a flatline threat.
Also it’s strictly better than Braintrust and Medical Breakthrough.
I’m not sold on running 3-pointers since RnD can often be leaky earlygame and it takes credits to defend Future Perfect which I don’t tend to have a lot of, but might be worth it. I like placing unadvanced stuff in a server though, it gives you some options bluffing agendas through if you don’t have secure servers.
Has anybody been experimenting with Susanoo in this deck? Seems like it would be a strong way to fling somebody at an Archer/Grim, and if they’re not running archives often enough to ICE (because Jinteki), you could do some serious harm with it (not saying go for the ol’ Jinteki archives kill, but it could definitely happen).
This WE I played against a jinteki shutdown with an interesting twist. He played a lot of 1-pointers (I saw profiteerings in addition to the usual house of knives and clone retirement), accelerated diagnostics and 1 interns + 1 shipment from sansan + 1 subliminal messaging. This allowed him to flatline the runner in the late game by scoring philotic from an empty board position and only 2 credits (subliminal pays for the 3rd advancement counter). In case philotic was scored he had neural EMP as backup to combo up to 5 net damage in a turn (hard to set up, but 4 net is quite feasible). This eats up a lot of deckspace and I don’t know if it’s quite consistent enough, but thought it was interesting enough to share.
