If they add a legacy format then I wouldn’t care about rotation. I don’t know if I ever intended to collect Netrunner forever but I wanted a large card pool so I could build competitive decks for tournaments if I chose to attend one. Got to feel bad for AGOT players though, they are completely rebooting that game.
More tools for FA might make me stop supporting ANR. I might still play on OCTGN, but that’s it. It would be a shame for such a rigorous, intellectual game be diluted by non-interactivity. But that’s not what this thread is about.
Personally I don’t think any Runner cards should be restricted right now. Siphon isn’t a problem any more, IMO. Many Anarchs aren’t even running it. That said, I think one Runner ID might need banning, but I guess Worlds will show whether that opinion is justified.
I’m curious on how thing will goes after plascrete got rotated out of the meta.
They will reprint it (plascrete)
Not necessarily. It’s not actually a good card, design-wise. More things like Crash Space that deal with Net Damage but provide some other sort of utility would be a much better choice.
Though yeah, probably they’ll print it.
1 Like
I hope they don’t just reprint it. They’ve given themselves a reason to explore these areas in new ways and I hope they use it. Imagine if the only way to dodge meat damage was something like a less crazy Emergency Self-Construct?
2 Likes
Psi isn’t any more random than top-decking 3-5 points off RnD first turn. Would you ban that, too? I’ve lost plenty more tournaments that way.
Restricted lists are such a huge pain I’d almost prefer errata reprints. Then again, as a VtES player I know what a mess that can be when handled incorrectly.
Also, fast-advance isn’t necessarily non-interactive, you just interact with it differently - Imp, Demo Run, Source, Chakana, Logos, credit denial in general… threatening the remote doesn’t work, but other forms of interaction do.
Edit: the one card I fully expect to get restricted is Eli 1.0. That shit is everywhere, and not in a good way. For extra hilarity, imagine a restricted list featuring any of the following pairs:
- Midseason + Scorch
- Andromeda + Datasucker
- NAPD + Jackson
4 Likes
I find HBFA to be plenty interactive. There’s always figuring out when the odds are best to access each central, but there’s also watching the corp’s economy to figure out what they’ll be capable of each turn. The runner can interact with that with siphon or with deciding when to kill economy assets.
Against NBN this mostly shows up in the early game deciding whether to kill sansan. But once they get the astro token and make a critical mass of pad campaigns, the interaction goes away. It just becomes a race, and the only interaction you can hope to have is keeping them off the expensive fast-track-biotic-sansan combo plays.
1 Like
Sheesh man, just play Whiz or some Scrubbers and that critical mass of PADs never happens. They can’t really afford to ICE up more than one (because their centrals would soften up), and If they keep reinstalling them into a somewhat protected server, you just turned off their card draw. Letting them keep one asset is fine, ideally a Marked Accounts. The situation only really gets out of hand with 3+.
Game of Thrones was the game needing the rotation the most from LCGs so this makes sense for that. Instead FFG will just release 2nd edition of it and rotate the whole game away. I still don’t trust FFG having any plans to try keeping LCGs alive a longer.
1 Like
This is pretty upsetting to me. FFG money grab at best.
1 Like
How is this a cash grab? Without rotation, you’d need all the packs to have a full playset. Once we get to cycle 8, a new player will only have to buy 6 cycles? (You aren’t the only person I see saying this. I just don’t get it, and the conversation seems a lot more civil here than elsewhere tonight.)
I think it’ll be interesting to see what the game is like with about half of the current card pool rotated out… in 3 or 4 years when we get to that point.
5 Likes
As a Thrones player, trust me, you don’t want to see your cardpool get any bigger than 7 cycles. I love Thrones but there’s no denying it’s something of a bloated mess. Netrunner is so refreshingly streamlined and well designed by comparison that I’d hate to see it go the same way. This rotation seems like a very good solution to me.
Also, as far as losing pieces for old themes (Stealth Hardware etc) goes, that should only be a problem for the first one or two times rotation happens. After that the cardpool will be entirely made up of cards FFG designed with rotation in mind. I agree that such a large/long form of rotation is a bit strange, but I don’t see it being problematic. It also gives each cycle of cards a longer life, 2.5-3 years at least by my calculations, and FFG delays could well bump that up by another 6 months.
8 Likes
Because they have given my card’s a shelf life that wasn’t there when I bought them … And, I can guarantee, despite best attempts to deny, they will make me buy reprints to play in tournaments.
1 Like
No offence, but did you seriously expect anything else? There was always going to be an end point - whether rotation, a game so bloated as to be unplayable or simple death. And not even Magic (to my knowledge) prevents people playing their older prints of existing cards.
I don’t see what option they could have pursued that would have made you happy.
6 Likes
I expected an adherence to the core set being the standard of power with packs creating options. The mistakes are already made though. NEH creams the idea of the core set cards being the gold standard of power. Andromeda started the rot and NEH sealed the deal.
I didn’t expect rotation, and take it on good faith that bloat will ruin the game in major competitive environments, even though I am sceptical of this. I’ve always loved the idea that the core set and a big box is all you need to have a cool, reasonably competitive deck you can take to small local tourney’s and play with friends.
That is the very heart of the LCG model and , with rotation, it feels like we have been told that is not the case. Or maybe rotation is an attempt to make that the case. That’s what I’m trying to figure out. Creating a game that was less about the cards and more about the way you played is what I fell in love with when I started Netrunner. Sticking to that through design decisions would’ve made me happy.
2 Likes
I think this sums up the difference between casual and competitive play. If you’re just playing with friends then this is absolutely true and you should play to your heart’s content. But then, if you’re that kind of player who cares what FFG says is tournament legal? Just play whatever makes you happy.
If you’re a competitive player though, you pretty much need everything. Maybe not for an individual specific “flavour of the month” deck, but in order to understand the whole card pool and be able to practice against different deck archetypes etc. Plus, as soon as the meta changes, so too must you and your deck - you cannot react if you don’t have all the cards.
That’s the essence of the policy - casual: do as you please, compettive: we need to keep it reined in and under control.
I like the idea of the Legacy format but I think if you introduce that you run the risk that everyone just ignores standard and plays with all the cards anyway - which completely defeats the purpose of block rotation. Maybe it’s something to reintroduce later on once we’ve had a couple of rotations.
I feel more sorry AGoT players. A full-on reboot is a bit of a kick in the teeth to anyone who just got into the game.
7 Likes
Can’t wait to necro this thread in 2017 and laugh
12 Likes
From the replies I’ve seen on Reddit, they seem quite pleased. I think a lot were hoping for a reboot.
3 Likes
I think they fall into two camps. The serious tournament players recognise that the game is busted and needs refreshing, and that it’s got to where it is because of the constant tweaks and quick-fixes. Sometimes you just need to wipe the slate and start afresh. Where I play though there’s a huge community spirit and it’s way less competitive. A lot of people drifting into the game casually - for them a reboot represents a wasted investment in a game that will no longer be supported.
There is also a small-ish subset of people who have got into the game competitively and dumped a lot of money into the game to pick up all the cards. I actually sold my own collection this summer, so that person has had 3 months’ use out of the cards and now they’re valueless. It’s just a bit of a shame for those people.
2 Likes