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Smoke and Mirrors -- A Scovak Thread


#426

What tech do you guys use against Moonies decks? With only 40 card limit it is hard to squeeze anything too narrow in. And what strategy do you use?


#427

Not saying it wins but Employee Strike & Desperado help some.


#428

And if you use Netmercure for trashing you have 2 creds per run assuming you use Desperado.


#429

It’s a rough matchup so Film Critic and R&D digs essentially.


#430

Playing desperado out of Smoke isn’t bad and it really helps with spam.
Getting a net mercur (3-off) online and running asap is key, cheap breakers like refractor or even cards like ghost runner will help you a lot to do this. (it’s a skulljack)
Include one paricia (SMC for it when needed) and you actually have a great matchup against Moons.


#431

I’ve been testing Smoke against a few decks lately in preparation for regionals, and I added 3x Maker’s Eye and 1x R&DI instead of my original Indexing + Mad Dash combo. The shuffle from Marilyn Campaign (if they use it) means that standard multi-access often nets more accesses. With an economy/resource package built on Temujin, Bloo Moose, Beth, Dirty Laundry, and Sure Gamble, I feel pretty rich against Moons. Astrolabe helps a ton. Just comes down to rushing speed.


#432

Have you considered an equivocation instead of the rdi since you can tutor for it?


#433

Equivocation, aside from being tutorable, allows you to defuse Snares and Archangels on the top of R&D. It uses MU, which is difficult to come by in stealth, but I have always thought it was worth it.

Has anyone used Dedicated Processor on Dagger?


#434

I just brought Desperado Smoke to regionals. Desperado is a fantastic console for Smoke, probably the most synergistic.

I made the error, I think, of cutting the standard econ of Dirty Laundry/Daily Casts for 2x Bloo Moose, 1x Beth, a SacCon and something else.

My reasoning was that 2 Bloo Moose, if triggered consistently, could more than replace 3 Daily Casts, and that it could also replace Dirty laundry, which you need to first find then use for a run which may have costs of its own.

I had forgotten that tournament play is faster, games are shorter, and you have to score points to increase your chances of a timed win.

I found Bloo Moose awkward and pitched it on more than one occasion as I dug for multi-access or the burstier Sure Gamble or Temujin.

My new mission is to tune the Smoke list to have the strongest out-of-the-gate pressure, which I think will do well in a meta that has so many fast advance decks. You can’t durdle these days. Suggestions welcome.

Also, how anyone would consider playing a shaper list without Beth is beyond me. On the day she did serious work. Corps have more event econ than other, so I think people are excited about Bloo Moose but can I just remind us all: FIVE CLICK TURNS?


#435

This is the Smoke I’ve been dicking around with recently:

GunSmoke

Ele “Smoke” Scovak: Cynosure of the Net (Intervention)

Event (15)

Hardware (4)

Resource (12)

Icebreaker (4)

Program (5)

15 influence spent (max 15, available 0)
40 cards (min 40)
Cards up to Free Mars

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

###Commentary

I very, very rarely Levy. It’s there mostly for the Net Damage matchup and I ache for that deck slot! A second Beth would be nice but I need that Levy :cry:. Bloo Moose is pretty damn solid. Depending on meta I’d want an additional NACH. Not 100% sure what to cut for it, though, Maybe The Personal Touch? That’s nice in some match ups on Blackstone but I’m not all-in on its value given that it’s only 1-of. At the worst it’s 2 credits to Bloo Moose…

I tried to fit in Aeneas Informant to really turn up the value on naked remotes, but the influence and deck space just isn’t there. :sweat: Oh well.

Legwork could easily become a couple of Employee Strikes if you’re seeing high-value ES IDs in your meta.

Also, you’re a crazy person for dropping Dirty Laundry. That card has synergies with almost every other econ card in the deck!


#436

The Personal Touch was a big help to me on the day. One opponent looked down at Blackstone and gleefully advanced a Fire Wall to 8—I slapped Personal Touch down on my next turn and ran back—while another opponent simply ran Eli. I would rather reconsider the breaker suite altogether than use Blackstone without some kind of crapness mitigator.

One of the things I was looking for with Smoke was the ability to simply slap down an SMC and go, similar to the way I used to enjoy running on turn one with Kit and Refractor. I have been seeing a lot of corp decks lately simply walking agendas off the table behind an Ice Wall or similar; criminals have abandoned Inside Job in favour of tech, shapers have started running more expensive breakers or fussier setups, anarchs don’t play as much Faust.

So I’ve actually updated my list to try out 2x Corroder. Seems like the only option for challenging a Titan player who wants to get their Atlas out on turn 2, no?

Otherwise, our lists look pretty similar. I’m not entirely sold on Indexing/Mad Dash at the moment. Sure it wins games and works around matchups where multiaccess could be problematic, but it often has a high hidden cost and assumes you’ve checked all the remotes for anything that could shuffle R&D (these effects are all too common lately). Whiffing on an Indexing can often leave you behind and without a coherent next step. I also suspect a whiffed Indexing can provide your opponent some idea of how to plan their own next turns (e.g. how much they can draw or how fast they need to go). I may just try spamming Maker’s Eye instead. Old school.


#437

The value of The Personal Touch depends on how much you’re really planning on running through Eli and Chiyashi. Given that Blackstone holds its strength it will save you at most 3 credits per run. That’s great early, but late game it might only save you a handful of credits in very specific match ups (even assuming HB isn’t on NEXT). As a 1-of it’s unreliable in that way and it may be worth shoring up the SYNC match up at the expense of a economic hit vs. HB and Jinteki.

There’s also the point to be made that, relative to other break options, Blackstone isn’t that much more expensive. For the first Eli it only breaks for 2 more than Paperclip and 1 more than Corroder. Multiple Eli are gravy. For Chiyashi, again, it’s only 2 more than Paperclip and the same as Corroder. When you put it like that, it doesn’t look so bad even without The Personal Touch.

I don’t think that breaker suite is particularly ill-suited to SMC-and-Go. Blackstone has the same cost to install and gets you through that gear check just as well as Paperclip. Corroder is fine if you’re worried about the extra 2 credits to install, and Legwork could easily become a Corroder. I find the influence better spend on the Legwork, personally. If you’re running 2x Corroder then I don’t know where you’re getting the inf for the second from.

Getting rid of shuffle effects generally just means triggering Jacksons, which isn’t that hard, so Indexing is still solid. That said, I’ve been waning on Indexing/Mad Dash too. It’s amazing when it works but there are so many reasons to Film Critic agendas right now (Obokota, Midseasons, Hunter Seeker…) that Mad Dash isn’t as potent. Indexing loses some of its potency when you can’t combo it with Mad Dash as easily. It might be worth putting in Equivocation + 2x Interface. The Interfaces would make it more resilient to Crisium, as well, so you wouldn’t need Interdiction. You get an extra deck slot by trading out the Interdiction along with the Indexing package. This also increases single-run value on R&D which is nice as a stealth deck. It’s a more expensive package, but I find the econ to be pretty a-ok in the long game so it’s worth experimenting with.

Here’s the current iteration based on the changes I laid out based on our convo:

GunSmoke

Ele “Smoke” Scovak: Cynosure of the Net (Intervention)

Event (11)

Hardware (5)

Resource (14)

Icebreaker (4)

Program (6)

15 influence spent (max 15, available 0)
40 cards (min 40)
Cards up to Free Mars

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

####Commentary

I think it looks better with the second Beth and second NACH. It’s also nice to have straight R&D pressure. I’m really torn between keeping the Legwork and putting in 2x Employee Strike at the expense of some other card. If there were a better solution vs. Net Damage Jinteki then I’d drop the Levy in a heart beat.

Also, interesting to note, NACH and R&D Interface are the only rotating cards in this deck. R&DI is probably straight replaced by The Maker’s Eye here. NACH on the other hand… I fear SYNC after rotation. Dunno what to do other than slot a Misdirection and pray…

Edit: Just played a game with this list. Another great thing is Equivocation/R&D Interface don’t get stuffed by Nisei tokens. I think this is better R&D pressure in a Jinteki meta than Mad Lad Indexings. That said, I realize now that R&D Interface only has soft-synergy with Equivocation. Gets you only one card deeper over a turn of digs. Still good, but maybe not worth two in the slot (might go to one). Also, Levy saved my bacon when I couldn’t find my Film Critic. I think it stays solid in the deck. Sometimes just the card draw from it is nice…


#438

I assume Feedback Filter and Net Shield don’t work…? (Net Shield is a big ask in a Stealth deck because of MU…) Not enough money to make Feedback Filter work?

Last Question: Your rig is 3x Breakers + Cloak +… ? Second Cloak or Equivocation? I assume Equivocation…


#439

Yeah, I’m not sold enough on the econ to run Feedback Filter and be able to keep up run pressure. I’m also beginning to think I’m also underselling Levy to myself. After using it well the last game I played I’m appreciating more that Levy is a nice recovery/draw button in a pinch and plays nicely with Bloo Moose. With a nice econ base in the mid game it can really help you keep up pressure if you get your Dirty Laundry, Sure Gamble, and Temujin cards back.

Three Breaker + Cloak + Equivocation would be the normal setup. Usually one Cloak can do it, especially if you can charge up a Net Mercur early. If you really need it then you could run two Cloak and have the RDI act as your win-con without the Equivocation. If you’re in a situation where you need a second Cloak then you probably can’t run more than once per turn and take full advantage of Equivocation anyway. 20 hrs later Edit: Although, if you did manage to find yourself with an extra deck slot (you probably won’t… but you never know!) then you could slot an Akamatsu Memchip. Can help with nearly-full rig SMC’s, too.


#440

Lately I have been struggling to set up quickly enough, especially against rush decks and especially when all three centrals are iced. My econ is 3x gamble, dirty laundry, and temujin. I’ve been considering going down to 2x temujin and using the extra influence for another stimhack and another clone chip. How have others handled this problem?


#441

You need more economy cards. Bloo Moose is essential. I was using Daily Casts before it for more econ. Temujin is fantastic but at some point in the game it doesnt help to bring your credit pool up from low, it just makes it go down less fast while running. I’d drop the Temujin and maybe slot a Peace In Our Time or two. PiOT might be preferable to Stimhack if you’re using Beth and don’t care too much about econ denial. That can turbocharge your early game if it’s in your opening hand.


#442

That’s a good idea. I’ll try that; thanks!


#443

Post-rotation Smoke. Not a lot different. Need a non-NACH way to deal with tags, so freed some influence I was using on Peace In Our Times for Aaron, who also adds some nice draw to the deck (which can help make up for lowered econ), and then added Armitage to shore up the econ density a touch. Misdirection has also been added as it deals very nicely with Sync and Hard-Hitting News, in a pinch. Maker’s Eye in for R&D Interface because it’s just kinda the next best influence-free R&D multiaccess card that exists after rotation and it plays nicely with Equivocation (which is a beast).

I switched from Personal Touch to Net-Ready Eyes. It could easily be a Personal Touch, but I think NRE is nice because of how it can be used against Jinteki on Refractor and Dagger (for DNA Tracker and Komainu, respectively). Otherwise it’s Bloo Moose fodder.

Smoke

Ele “Smoke” Scovak: Cynosure of the Net (Intervention)

Event (12)

Hardware (4)

Resource (13)

Icebreaker (4)

Program (7)

15 influence spent (max 15, available 0)
40 cards (min 40)
Cards up to Free Mars

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.


#444

Anyone going to put turtles in a smoke deck? Seems pretty good if you are on temu/Desperado.

Bonus points for it being good with Deuces.


#445

Turtles as in Aumakua? It’s an interesting idea, but influence is so, so tight. And it’s not as reliable as an AI as, say, Dai V, since the strength fluctuates and it can be hard to build up counters on it in certain situations. Turtles is probably best used in a crim deck in conjunction with Aeneas and in an asset-spam heavy field, if at all.

Edit: I didn’t read Aumakua close enough, didn’t realize you could charge it off of Archives. It’s really, really interesting. One of the things, though, is that ice over all the centrals and no open remotes means you potentially give up a window to the Corp after a purge. Stealth also allows you to break ice for virtually 1 credit per sub anyway. With Smoke I think you would rather have a Dai V in order to be able to get through Excalibur/Mother Goddess/Loki or as a backup in a pinch vs. Aumakua, which shines better when you can use it to avoid pumping a normal breaker multiple times.