More importantly, they’re non-virtual resources. 
4 Likes
I’m personally thinking a cheap killer, loads of draw, 2 mediums and then stuff like FAO to get destroyers rezzed when you have no rig. Then kill them with prey, it seems like being fast enough will be the biggest challenge at the moment. He seems like a fun puzzle.
Great point, I’d totally forgotten about that bit. 
I guess event draw is where it’s at then! QT is kind of pricey though, and Diesel is 2 inf.
one thing that i’m excited about for Apex is how you can include pretty much off-the-wall super-specific silver bullets like Paper Tripping or some bullshit like that.
any game where the corp isn’t tagging you, it’s just a facedown card to fuel Endless Hunger/Heartbeat/Prey
along with that idea, Mass Install could help speed up your installs, but i don’t think Apex is installing many programs, just Harbinger, Endless Hunger and the odd Sharpshooter or other killer
i think ideally you’d want Clone Chips to help you get back after any program trashing. and your last MU can go to Sharpshooter imo
i think Apocalypse is a huge economy card for Apex, giving more facedown cards for Endless Hunger/etc. and also getting rid of the ICE that requires using those cards.
towards the late game, you’ll probably start running out of cards to trash, but Apocalypse can help spring you forward while slowing the corp down a lot.
Adam probably isn’t going to run all of his cards. Sunny might run a lot of hers, but she also has a higher deck limit. Apex probably wants to include all in-faction cards (for reasons stated above), so you can stretch your influence quite a bit. the lack of econ is a problem.
here are some available credit econ options for apex:
- Prepaid VoicePAD: access to PPVP and all the events (still needs 6 influence for the Lucky Finds, can also probably find room for Day Job), also no access to Same Old Thing. biggest problem is you lose your Prepaids whenever you bring about the Apocalypse
as an aside, Hyperdriver with the above economy suite is probably pretty ok with Apex as there’s only one breaker you need. one click to install Endless Hunger, run three times, Apocalypse, and still have 2 clicks left. maybe check archives and R&D again? Same Old Thing into Dirty Laundry on archives? fun times. - Data Folding (probably not a good choice considering Endless Hunger’s MU cost)
- Grifter (could actually be pretty useful since you just stomp over ETRs. requires runs though)
- Ice Analyzer (great! they’ll be rezzing a lot of ICE! too bad you won’t be installing too much probably)
- Power Nap might not be terrible (for the same reason it’s not ‘terrible’ for MaxX… probably inconsistent)
Non-Virtual.
7 Likes
Hmm. Let’s say you run a full set of all his stuff.
3x Endless Hunger
3x Apocalypse
3x Hunting Grounds
3x Prey
3x Harbinger
3x Wasteland
3x Heartbeat
= 21 cards
Running more copies of things like Heartbeat than you really need is fine because you can install extras face down.
That means you need 24 “normal” cards and you have 25 inf to do it with. Example:
Event (19)
2x Account Siphon ••••• •••
3x Day Job •••
2x Diesel ••••
3x Dirty Laundry
2x Kraken
2x Quality Time ••
3x Sure Gamble
2x The Maker’s Eye ••••
Resource (1)
1x Utopia Shard
Icebreaker (2)
2x Mimic ••
Program (2)
2x Crescentus ••
25 influence spent (max 25)
24 cards
I have no idea whether this actually works, but at least it’s a strawman. Kraken is obviously a pretty dodgy include but it is 0 inf and if it works anywhere it might be here. Hunger is the key variable - can you really rely on that as your main breaker? If not you have to import those too. @CJFM 's stealth suite (above), Eater or Faust seem like likely candidates.
edit: aah, netrunnerdb thought utopia was 0 inf for some reason. -1 diesel +1qt I guess?
This is why I’m thinking a Chop Bot to help you set up. 1 cost, 1 inf, guaranteed to hit your Wasteland trigger. Cycle out your lategame cards. Harbingers can be fed in twice. Build a Red Breaker Rig for this phase of the game, then trigger the Apocalypse and drop Endless Hunger to finish.
Jank alert: Apex can’t install non-virtual resouces. Nothing says they can’t be in the deck. So if the ID was blanked by Cerebral Static, you could install them. (It’s a shame Dr. Lovegood can only target installed cards.)
Another thing to worry about: Apex can’t install Same Old Thing, so if you want to guard against losing your Levy, you need Deja Vu.
2 Likes
Who knows, it could work. 1 inf is certainly appealing and you’re right that having a reliable way to trigger the Wasteland trigger could be a big deal. The 3 cost of QT is kind of painful when you don’t have VoicePADs.
haha. i feel like this is going to trip me up all the time building for apex. i even originally meant to point out not having access to it, and i still stuffed it up
but thanks! will correct lol
1 Like
Hyperdrive actually seems pretty clutch here
If it interacts like I believe it should, I’ve Had Worse is an auto-include if you’re running Heartbeat. Install IHW facedown, faceplant into damage (please Cortex Lock, please), discard with Heartbeat, draw three cards for free. If this works when it’s knocked out of your hand, seems it should from facedown installation, too. Totally an upgrade over Diesel for the same influence.
Also why we are not putting Endless Hunger on Leprechaun? “Because program trashing” doesn’t answer anything, that’s an issue with just a plain installed EH, too. Let’s bring the little green demon of jank into this.
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It definitely does not work like that sadly. Card text isn’t active while face down and also it wouldn’t have been trashed by Net or Meat damage, it would be trashed by Heartbeat’s ability
6 Likes
Well that’s a bummer.
1 Like
I was curious, so I had a look at ‘fake’ end the run ice that Endless Hunger can’t break. I was meaning to have a look at ice that couldn’t be broken with Endless Hunger + E3, but my mind is boggling at how to do that on netrunnerdb…
Anyway:
- Caduceus (Tracer)
- Clairvoyent Monitor (Psi)
- Draco (Tracer)
- Flare (Tracer)
- Heimdall 2.0 (though it does have a vanilla etr as well - AP)
- Muckraker (Tracer)
- Pachinko
- Pop-up window (I know, but… technically)
- Shinobi (Tracer, AP)
- Snowflake (Psi)
- Troll
- Tsurugi (AP)
- Turing
- Uroborus (Tracer)
- Viper (Tracer)
- Wotan
Snowflake, Pachinko, Heimdall, and Wotan are the only barriers on this list. What this all means, I’m not quite sure, but I think you can probably rely on Endless Hunger as at least a barrier breaker.
3 Likes
It’s all good. I literally suggested Career Fair + Earthrise, Pancakes + Wyldside, and Oracle May + Motivation within the span of an hour and every time my friends had to remind me.
I think the best way to build apex right now is a large amount of events and Chopbot. The problem is that the 25 influence goes by way to fast. It’s kind of a bummer that Lukas’s stance is that the mini-runners are not going to get much more support besides D+D, because Apex especially needs it…
I also really wish Heartbeat was something more relevant. If you could reasonably splash Astrolab or something than that would help a ton, but Heartbeat is too narrow to help the overall functionality of Apex.
2 Likes
I’m just gonna assume Apex’s Day Job is mining bitcoins.
"We really want to wreak digital havoc today… but we’re flat broke. Guess we’ll hit the office."
I like to imagine Apex speaks in the plural like Venom.
also, I feel that Apex is going to be a high risk/reward runner, which is why it may never be competitive, but surely fun.
2 Likes
What do we think about splashing link and cloud breakers as a memory solution for killers and decoders (I doubt we need a fracter)? Unfortunately access to globalsec is non-virtual.
Safety first, Adam’s directive #1 is a virtual ressource that draws (inf3) 
Would also put Aesop which combo with Wastelands, e3, legwork/makers eyes, parasites and maybe chip / suckers / sheherazades (wastelands / Aesop combo + unique @ 0c/0 mu)
Caches maybe.
Larla after Apocalypse is obvious as well. Sacrificial construct, too.
I feel like every other post in this thread should just be “nope, sorry, that’s a non-virtual resource.”
19 Likes