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What's up with Criminal?


#21

You choose with Faust which is pretty different. But I agree it’s pretty costly. QT is only 1 inf though.


#23

There’s support coming. Just bELIeve.


#24

Is it not obvious?

http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/uploads/an/ffg_theophilius-bagbiter-honor-and-profit.png


#25

@Nobo715’s Andromeda seems fairly good still in this meta, or at least he has been playing well enough with it to put up consistent results.

I wouldn’t mind trying something similar to that deck myself.

Other than that… I feel like Eater’s influence cost is a bit too high too make something competitive right now. Or at least that is the impression i got from playing against Ken Eater decks.


#26

Theophilius + Game Day new meta


#27

Faust and the Bagboys


#28

#29

Too bad they printed Sweeps Week. At least nobody plays NBN or that card.


#30

It’s also partly because Honour and Profit was such a weak box for crim; there is very little in there for from that is playable (honourable exception to passport, sec testing and leggy), while anarch and shaper got some really stupid good stuff in their big boxes. This is going t I be a problem in the long term I think, because the power level of OC and CC are so much higher than HP.


#31

Dan, please tell me you have a pic of you and Dr. Brule playing cards on your Worlds card.


#32

If Crisium Grid on HQ is such an issue, have people tried using Feint?


#33

It’s mainly the big 5 in the lower right that makes it an issue for people, although Feint could be right for Eater builds who literally cannot touch it.


#34

They don’t Rez the grid until you try to siphon them. You need cards to come up in a very specific order to make feint work.


#35

In no particular order:

Must spend the bulk of their influence on Code Gate & Barrier breakers

No in-faction card draw or recursion of any kind

Shitty card support over the past few cycles - a handful of good cards, and the rest are situational to useless crap

As noted, Honor and Profit is very weak compared to the other two expansions

Every other faction spammed out Criminals’ primary weapon, Account Siphon, so damn hard that everyone can deal with it much easier now due to increased Corp Econ and dedicated hate cards

By comparison, Anarchs are now stupidly powerful -they have very powerful in-faction tutoring, recursion, economy, multi-access, destruction, and breakers

Perhaps it wasn’t ever that Criminals were too good, but that Corps were too weak initially…


#36

“Anarchs…have very powerful in-faction tutoring”

Huh?


#37

I don’t get why people are saying H&P was bad for criminal. Sure it was weak compared to the other runners, but compared to some of the corps, they haven’t done too bad. They they got 3 whole cards to play with : ) Not just that, but 2 great cards and 1 good card in Legwork, Sec testing, and Passport.

Compare that to C&C for HB or O&C for Weyland. Neither gets anything nearly so impactful as any of the Crim cards. The best Corp card in O&C is Neutral (CVS) and the other is for NBN, not Weyland (Traffic Accident). C&C, while astounding for runners in general, has 2 cards you might consider playing more than 1 of in an HB deck: Victor 2.0 and Efficiency Committee. Victor 2. 0 is really having to fight for slots these days with Lotus Field and Turing filling a similar space. EC stopped being the premier 4/2 in HB as soon as NAPD contract was printed. Oh, they also gave Jinteki Cerebral Overwriter in C&C as well.


#38

I see what you’re saying, and it’s true those boxes weren’t very good for their respective Corps, but we’re not talking about Corporations here, so it’s sort of irrelevant to the subject.

Well, you’ve sort of get me there. :smile: Although there is Djinn, and Street Peddler is a sort of tutor… that also draws, filters and gives you a discount :smirk:


#39
  • Account siphon is no longer that big of a deal, but other econ denial cards like Shutdown and Forged have lost value as well
  • Run based econ is treacherous or harder to maintain
  • Faerie is not as good with Archer being almost non-existent
  • Lotus Field/Architect (at least for Parasite Gabe)
  • Criminals have no in-faction RnD multiaccess, which is extremely important given Caprice, Ash, and wealthy Corps that are able to setup strong remotes
  • Criminals are the most difficult to slot the Clot in

I played my first games of Netrunner in like a month the other day with NRE Gabe, and it wasn’t bad, but not as busted as drawing your entire deck while getting to play tons of parasites, non-run based econ, and then dig RnD with in faction cards.

If people play Film Critic and it pushes the meta away from Midseasons and RP and more into HB FA and AstroBiotics, then maybe criminal will get a small bump.


#40

A huge part of the problem with criminals is their terrible breaker suite, only faerie is good. Femm is better out of faction and the central breakers aren’t very good. Criminals have to spend all their influence on getting the most basic breakers in the game instead of getting interesting tricks or tools. For example Ken Tenma could be making very effective use of cutlery if he didn’t have to spend a huge chunk of influence and card space on getting out of faction breakers and recursion.


#41

I wasn’t being entirely serious. It definitely was a bad pack for Crim compared to how good the other 2 were for their factions. But it could’ve been worse. In fact I think that printing Legwork and (in particular) Sec Testing solidified Crim as easily the best runner faction right up until they printed O&C followed by Clot. Had it not been for Sec Testing, I think we’d have been talking about how weak criminal was around this time last year. Testing made Crim’s econ a lot stronger and helped to invalidated a lot of the better strategies against Crim (like taxing too much for Datasucker tokens). So I’d say that I don’t see H&P so much as a failure to help the faction (cause it actually did help Crims quite a lot), but definitely as a failure to give that faction other viable strategies.