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Where is the MWL? - As of August 20th, 2018 - MWL 2.2 is here (effective 2018.09.06)


#905

CI is literally gone, but with Accelerated Shutdown rotated, there’s not really an archetype that’s dependent on it that cannot be achieved in another ID (Sports, Titan, etc), it just won’t be as good. I’m not sure why you’re writing off the other ID’s. Sure, PU lost access to Obokata, but there’s been card attrition archetypes in PE and then PU since the beginning of the game, I expect to continue to see it going forward. Skorp still has access to Batty and destroyers, as well as Trojan Horse (along with Salem’s). Combo Wu lost Hyperdriver, but gained Clone Chip, and still has access to other click gainers (Beth, All-nighter, Temple of the Liberated Mind).

Sure, they’re not nearly as good, but that’s the point of the MWL. But, I wouldn’t be surprise to see a Jinteki attrition deck or a Sport/Titan deck that does similar FA combos in a top cut. I think this is a good philosophy for balancing varying strategies and seems similar to what Boggs is doing here:

I don’t see it as Boggs just taking decks out of tournament play just because he doesn’t like them. As I said earlier, I trust this is based on testing data over weeks if not months. We only had one day to theorycraft. I think he and the testers came to the conclusion that some of those decks are just too spicy. And the creators of games should pay attention to what most people enjoy about their games. We saw huge declines in competitive play during the Mumbad cycle which was notorious for NPE/spicy strategies.


#906

If you’re right about PU and Skorp I’d be happy to see that. I didn’t think there was a functional replacement for the inevitability of Obokata, or that Skorp could recover from losing such a directly important card in its gameplan, efficiency wise (but i did forget about Trojan horse in particular). Still skeptical about Wu though. Thank god Sportsmetal didn’t get hit I just chalked that up to a lack of complaints but you’re right those decks are cool too. Maybe I was wrong, but I don’t think it’s unfair of me to get at least a little concerned that decks are being punished for their strategy when that seems to be what a lot of people explicitly want.

I agree that Boggs and TBB are cut from the same cloth philosophy wise, that’s been apparent for a while. I’m not in agreement with the article that the battle lines should be drawn along fair-unfair, or that any specific portion of the game consititutes “real” netrunner, but that’s just me. He certainly puts out a self consistent philosophy, sticks with it, and has support within the community. But however well spoken, I still see it as an entirely subjective argument.

And yeah you should probably cater to the community of a competitive game in a general sense. Doesn’t make me less disappointed when I find out from on high that some of the magic I saw in this game isn’t really recognized as a good thing.

I was angrier upon reading the MWL than I am now, and even so I’ve always got total confidence in Bogg’s ability to balance a banlist and in Netrunner to be interesting reagardless of any reasonable change to the game. Worlds is gonna be a good time regardless.


#907

Fuck yeah, PU and Skorpios got hit. Finally, finally, finally, an admission that ID design is the riskiest of all, and they fucked up hardcore.

I think it makes the point: design every card like your game is going to be cancelled and you’re going to have to live with it forever. Are you going to backpedal? Are you going to hide behind some hypothetical person’s definition of “fun” or are you just going to say these are dumb and un-fun IDs to sit across the table from and they should never have existed.

Vindicated at last., Get fucked.


#908

I’m surprised you say this considering how strong CtM and Mti look after this MWL. What restricted card looks more attractive?


#909

Maybe in interest of brevity I under justified my take. There are definately two types of players though, people who prefer playing fair Netrunner and people who like games that rely on decks that have less decision making in game. Most of the deck-types Boggs is addressing tend to be more predestined before the game even starts in some ways. If a certain CI deck doesn’t even ice centrals and just draws hard to a big combo, the runner will either get lucky with his accesses or lose. Certain people, as someone said above, find seeing yhat sort of designed efficiency as “magical” and some see it as more than a NPE but just a broken game.

There is a tension between these types of attitudes and everyone in this thread seems to come down on one side or the other. I just think rather than either side thinking they are right or wrong, we should juat think of “fair netrunnner” as Boggs seems to prefer and “less restrictions” Netrunner as teo different games for two different kinds of people rather than argue that one is better or worse. Although obviously fair Netrunner is better.


#910

I said that on the Skorp topic when the ID was release and everyone had wishful thinking about the card, and my post was banned :slight_smile:

The design was not lazy, but the tests there, were lazy.
The design is brilliant (it’s not what I said, but in the end, I changed my opinion). But it happened in an optimistic mind, where people are nice to each others and loosing like that is okay. Tests should have detected that loosing like that is not okay.

“RFTG the other side’s deck” shouldn’t be a mecanic.


#911

I don’t understand the problem with Surveyor. It’s a weak str to break, even if put in a 5 ice (!!) large server. X also as a rez cost could have been a better design, but still.


#912

At 5 ICE, Surveyor is equal to the highest strength ICE in the whole of ANR (Wotan at 10 strength), costs just 5 credits to Rez and it ends runs if you can’t deal with it. It has a bit too much synergy with Jinja City Grid and I think it’s inclusion on the restricted list is correct.


#913

Looks good, list is getting long though.

I like the banning of CI. Not because it’s too strong, but because it pushes the game towards the wrong kind of randomness (that which can’t really be controlled by the runnner). Repeated fishing a large HQ simply isn’t all that interesting or fun.


#914

For me the exciting thing is SHAPER can finally win worlds! (or more likely still Anarch again)


#915

You know shaper won last year right?


#916

No restricted paperclip yet? CI is straight up banned?!? Oh I can’t wait for unrestricted play to be more of a thing, I embrace the ensuing chaos


#917

Yeah, surprised Paperclip isn’t on there. Lots of interesting fracters that seem to get overlooked, and lots of fun barriers that people are hesistant to play because of it.


#918

Coming from ONR, the beginning was okay, but the game has felt like it was watered down more and more as time went on. I miss the big explosive plays and eggshell walking.


#919

Most surprised to see Fairchild 3.0 go unrestricted. It’s so nasty.


#920

Don’t worry, with Clone Chip off the list you can just recur D4 over and over to deal with it. On a related note, is anyone else excited to play some Reg Ass MaxX again?


#924

What the hell? Both of you. No personal attacks. No cultural attacks. No attacking other posters’ arguments without actually addressing the points they made. This is childish and unacceptable.


#925

Yeah, I regretted it upon waking, and tried to come up with a more constructive edit, but I think it’s best to cut my losses and delete…especially since I don’t feel like I understand the community guidelines at all anymore.

In particular–if it’s appropriate to ask–I really don’t understand why my initial post was flagged. I thought it was an extremely civil, respectful, and positive response to a post that literally told the entire community to “get fucked” (and which, I note, has not itself been flagged).

But if post #907 is is indeed acceptable and #921 not, then I think I’m just so far out of touch with this community and its values that I should probably just be going.


#926

Following up in PM.


What is the meta?
#927

It’s here!