Will Blue Sun Tag and Bag be a thing?

Netrunner General
21

Don’t discount d4v1d. Femme still hurts the first time and d4vid can get you the second time. femme cam also bounce quite a bit in the right build.

1 Like
22

There are few things about Blue Sun that are not obvious at the first glance. You need to play few games against it… It’s crazy good.

2 Likes
23

How so? You still need to raise the money to rez those pieces first. Either that, or you’re burning the slots you freed up by skimping on econ to get in some rez tricks (like Oversight, or Amazon, or whatever).

If I’m dropping 3 econ cards to add 3 pieces of Oversight, I’m not really saving deckslots on econ, but rather I’m making a higher-variance version of the deck: if I get both OAI and a large piece of ICE in my opening hand, I’m a rich son of a bitch. If I don’t (and, say, only get the OAI with small/cheap pieces), I’m decidedly more screwed.

2 Likes
24

I don’t think Blue Sun is about “alternative” economy (in terms of running wacky/inconsistent cards); it’s more about flexibility and reactivity. If you want a pile of cash (to score an agenda or sea source the runner), it’s yours that turn. If you want to hunker down on defense and focus on locking the runner out for a few turns, there’s no opportunity cost to rezzing all your ice at once.

I believe the right (minimal) economy build for blue sun is 3 hedge fund, 3 restructure, 3 oversight. If you have extra slots, a few assets (the root, adonis campaign, amazon industrial) are great for consistency in times when oversight doesn’t show up.

2 Likes
25

With the exception of Archer, Weyland ICE is not as intimidating as HB. Hadrian’s Wall is inferior to both Heimdalls in terms of efficiency and cost to face-check and Curtain Wall is slightly less efficient than Wotan, less flexible in terms of positioning and weak to Inside Job.

HB also have Eli, Ichi, Viktor 2.0 and ELP in faction whereas Weyland really only have Caduceus and Archer (though these two do not synergise together) as efficient taxing ICE.

26

Weyland’s barriers have the advantage of being less permeable which lets you identify scoring windows more accurately.

2 Likes
27

I don’t think Femme and D4VID will be commonly played together.

D4VID is a big deal and is a problem, especially when paired with Quetzal and/or E3.

Bouncing Femme I can confirm is not a problem. I played against an Exile deck that reset Femme 5-6 times. It didn’t matter. I never felt threatened - worst case scenario the runner has a turn to pull of whatever multi-access trick they have. Next turn the server is going to be locked out again.

28

I disagree. While there are some scenarios where Weyland barriers can be superior, the permeability of HB ICE becomes a minor issue as ICE becomes stacked and you see efficiency and the runner’s credit pool dominate scoring window calculations. This is especially true the longer the game progresses. Relying on the lack of breaker to keep the runner out leads to higher variance as you need an accurate read on what breakers the runner has access to, something that can be quite difficult to read at times.

Overall, I think it’s easier to judge the runner’s credit pool rather than their access to breakers to judge a scoring window.

1 Like
29

You could see a return on investment from Caduceus or Shadow or Tollbooth–not to mention ICE like datapike that have a potential to be quite good until they become worthless. I’m not talking about tricks like OAI (though obviously not precluding it) so much as I’ saying you can make the lion’s share of your money through hostiles, government contracts, and geothermal fracking. I can see running just 3x Hedge Fund 3x Restructure, and even that might be overkill.

30

I don’t agree with the bad pub approach.

The whole point of having big ICE like Hadrians or Curtain Wall is that they hard stop runners because they cost a ton of creds to break. If you’re giving them BP, they no longer cost a ton of creds.

It makes sense in old Scorch Weyland builds because the ICE are small and they either stop or don’t do anything. However, Blue Sun should be built very differently.

1 Like
31

Here’s the thing though, if you are throwing out and rezzing large enough pieces of ICE, a reasonable (2-3 tops) amount of bad pub isn’t going to significantly impact the runners ability to run. Using Hadrian and Curtain Wall for examples, a Curtain Wall on the outside of a server costs 11 credits to break with Corroder (-1 for each sucker token/bad pub), a Hadrian’s costs 7. On the flip side, no bad pub DOES make it harder to get into your servers, especially if Corroder stays the standard go-to barrier breaker. I mean, having to spend (for example) 6 clicks Opusing just to be able to break the first piece of ICE on the Corps scoring server? Just brutal.

Also, if you have servers expensive enough to where the runner can only afford to make at most 1 effective run per turn, bad pub isn’t as much of a deal I don’t think.

32

On the other hand, without Hostile Takeover you lose Archer and Atlas becomes a bit worse as it’s no longer scoreable as a pseudo 4/3 or 5/4 agenda.

2 Likes
33

If you want to combine the bp-generating agenda-based econ model with being a glacier (and BS’s ability), isn’t the obvious answer “Run one Lizzy, tutor with Atlas if needed, keep rezzing and bouncing her”?

5 Likes
34

Yeah, I think infinite BP clears totally validates Elizabeth Mills

1 Like
35

I think I’ll try this build out. I was playing around with a Blue Sun deck that was 85% Barriers, and no Sentries. It would just recycle Wisp to keep those Fracters at bay. However, I believe T&B is a better threat with all that cash than no SE. Threw in a couple of Ravens, as, they are tough to deal with outside of Parasite and Femme, and Sun handles both of those problems extremely well.

Sun and Done

Blue Sun: Powering the Future (Up and Over)

Agenda (8)

Asset (3)

Operation (16)

Barrier (9)

Code Gate (3)

Sentry (10)

15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Up and Over

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

5 Likes
36

Looks like a good list. Without the OAI I’d say it’d be difficult to win via scoring, but 1 or 2 early Agendas behind a big Barrier should give you the buffer you need. Inside Job hurts, though.

37

Well, if you get a money advantage, and IAA an Atlas, they will prob. take a shot. Perhaps you have the kill in hand at that point?

I have yet to try it, but, like any slow deck, you want to avoid early Agenda pulls, hence the low density. Double Plas would hurt, hence the Orders.

38

I think Fast Track is a card that needs to be considered for Weyland generally, and Blue Sun specifically.

Being able to score with zero credits at the start of your turn opens up huge scoring windows, and you really want an Atlas at those moments, so you can capitalize on the next window.

Priority is cute, but it feels low impact (unless you run Archer maybe). I’d rather see 3x NAPD because it’s just that good, and maybe a Cleaners and a Government Contacts (plus 1 something or other).

1 Like
39

Cute? It can be 10-14 creds. GovCon is redundant and pointless in BS. NAPD is cool, but provides no use when scoring and waters down the deck.

All of the Agendas but the 1 NAPD are highly useful in my build. If you’re playing non-SE, a different build makes sense. (although I do like Cleaners)

3 Likes
40

Just a thought, could Cyberdex Trials be worth a slot? Datasucker powered Parasites would seem to be one of the biggest challenges for this deck. Probably can’t squeeze it into the Scorched version but Glacier maybe.

1 Like